Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.319
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
00:00:02.350 --> 00:00:03.080
I'm randy.
00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:03.805
I'm And I'm Jess.
00:00:03.834 --> 00:00:12.544
And we are two licensed psychotherapists, and this is a safe space where we talk about mental health, well being, and strategies for coping with life's challenges.
00:00:12.605 --> 00:00:15.595
And how all of this is normal, and you are not alone.
00:00:15.884 --> 00:00:20.054
Today, we're tackling a topic that's become increasingly relevant in our digital age.
00:00:20.364 --> 00:00:22.464
Ghosting versus setting boundaries.
00:00:22.964 --> 00:00:24.684
We're going to define both concepts.
00:00:24.704 --> 00:00:32.085
I think we all know what ghosting is, but we're going to go ahead and define that, discuss why they're called ghosting and why setting boundaries is important.
00:00:32.145 --> 00:00:39.634
and we're going to talk about how it affects our mental health as women and teach some better boundary setting skills for you guys.
00:00:40.164 --> 00:00:43.234
You can find us and more resources on womensmentalhealthpodcast.
00:00:44.104 --> 00:00:44.524
com.
00:00:45.015 --> 00:00:46.695
Have you ever had these thoughts?
00:00:46.945 --> 00:00:50.244
What is ghosting and how is it different from setting boundaries?
00:00:50.465 --> 00:00:53.825
Is ghosting ever considered a form of setting boundaries?
00:00:54.054 --> 00:00:58.795
How can I set boundaries without making other people feel like they've been ghosted?
00:00:59.234 --> 00:01:00.965
Why do people even ghost others?
00:01:01.384 --> 00:01:02.134
Because they're assholes.
00:01:03.134 --> 00:01:06.644
What are the psychological effects of being ghosted?
00:01:06.965 --> 00:01:09.905
How can I cope with the emotional impact of being ghosted?
00:01:10.075 --> 00:01:13.234
Can setting boundaries lead to healthier relationships?
00:01:13.454 --> 00:01:19.314
What should I do if someone I care about starts to ghost me or is starting to set really strong boundaries?
00:01:19.625 --> 00:01:21.935
How can I communicate my boundaries without
00:01:21.935 --> 00:01:23.584
feeling guilty or selfish?
00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:31.359
Are there any long term consequences of ghosting someone on my own mental health or setting really hard boundaries
00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:32.439
with someone as well?
00:01:32.689 --> 00:01:35.409
So let's start by defining the term ghosting.
00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:42.340
Ghosting is a term used to describe the act of suddenly cutting off all communication without explanation.
00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:48.310
So it's often seen in the dating world, but it can also happen in friendships or with professional relationships.
00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:58.319
And the person who is ghosted is often left feeling like there's no closure or they're confused why this relationship or friendship has ended.
00:01:59.689 --> 00:02:00.799
Where, yeah, exactly.
00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:01.030
Right.
00:02:01.030 --> 00:02:01.920
They're like, what's going on.
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:02.469
Right.
00:02:02.549 --> 00:02:12.939
So on the other hand, setting boundaries involves very clear communication limits or rules in a relationship that protects your mental health and emotional well being.
00:02:13.270 --> 00:02:22.780
It's intentional, it's respectful, it's a way to establish with others how you want to be treated, what behaviors are acceptable, and what are not.
00:02:23.020 --> 00:02:24.710
And this can help you make sure
00:02:24.710 --> 00:02:26.310
that your values are honored.
00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:50.020
So the term ghosting comes from the idea of someone disappearing like a ghost, like poof, So suddenly without a trace and it's a phenomenon that has become more and more common with the rise of social media and digital communication where people can easily cut ties and ignore messages or they can block contacts and this makes me think of that MTV show that was popular for a long time, catfishing.
00:02:50.044 --> 00:02:53.175
Where like people would just say they were somebody or somebody else.
00:02:53.175 --> 00:02:54.574
And then just cut off communication.
00:02:54.585 --> 00:02:56.354
And the person is like, what's happening?
00:02:56.504 --> 00:02:57.594
I thought we were in love.
00:02:58.824 --> 00:03:02.925
Well, and I think everybody has been ghosted or has ghosted somebody.
00:03:03.395 --> 00:03:03.805
Yeah.
00:03:03.814 --> 00:03:07.414
Whether intentionally or not, but I think everybody has at least been ghosted once.
00:03:08.004 --> 00:03:13.805
Whether it's part of the mean girl club, whether it was somebody you're dating or that was trying to date you.
00:03:14.444 --> 00:03:16.555
I think everyone's experienced this.
00:03:16.615 --> 00:03:16.775
Yeah.
00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:21.550
When we set boundaries, it is telling people how you want to be treated.
00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:23.025
Imagine it like this.
00:03:23.854 --> 00:03:28.014
Being on a freeway or highway, there are lines that are solid.
00:03:28.014 --> 00:03:29.985
There are lines that are dotted.
00:03:30.275 --> 00:03:32.425
We have those little bumpy things.
00:03:32.444 --> 00:03:36.544
We have, some of us have the high occupancy or carpool lanes.
00:03:36.935 --> 00:03:39.224
We have, big dividers in the middle of our freeway.
00:03:39.224 --> 00:03:40.115
freeways or highways.
00:03:40.115 --> 00:03:40.344
Right.
00:03:40.354 --> 00:03:40.775
Everybody
00:03:40.775 --> 00:03:43.044
has different limits, right?
00:03:43.094 --> 00:03:51.044
And like for some people, they might want to get right up to that line in the middle of the freeway and other people, maybe they want a three foot, space.
00:03:51.044 --> 00:03:51.504
Exactly.
00:03:52.465 --> 00:03:52.955
Exactly.
00:03:52.955 --> 00:03:57.254
And some people, if you don't signal and say, Hey, I'm coming over, they bump you and there's an accident.
00:03:57.625 --> 00:04:03.145
So imagine that's what boundaries are, what you're willing to tolerate, what you're not going to tolerate.
00:04:03.485 --> 00:04:05.675
And every time we get resentful.
00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.240
We should have had a better boundary.
00:04:08.430 --> 00:04:10.620
If I'm like son of a bitch Why did I do that?
00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:11.319
Damn it.
00:04:11.330 --> 00:04:12.469
That's not what I wanted.
00:04:12.849 --> 00:04:15.120
Okay, what could I have done differently, right?
00:04:15.129 --> 00:04:15.650
It should have set a
00:04:15.650 --> 00:04:16.500
stronger boundary.
00:04:16.509 --> 00:04:17.279
Exactly.
00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:27.235
So let's discuss how these behaviors can affect us as women and our mental health So when you are ghosted, it can be a deeply hurtful experience.
00:04:27.254 --> 00:04:33.944
It can lead you to be confused, feeling rejected, maybe having, self doubt about yourself.
00:04:33.944 --> 00:04:34.875
What did I do?
00:04:34.935 --> 00:04:35.975
What's wrong with me?
00:04:35.985 --> 00:04:36.805
Things like that.
00:04:37.074 --> 00:04:45.615
And so with the lack of closure, it can really leave you questioning what went wrong and sometimes can trigger anxiety or depressive symptoms.
00:04:46.125 --> 00:05:07.564
And it can also Undermine your self esteem because a lot of times, especially as women, we internalize rejection and we take that on that we did something wrong and we're unworthy of the relationship and when that usually is not the case when somebody goes to you, it usually has something more to do with them than you.
00:05:07.704 --> 00:05:07.834
I
00:05:07.834 --> 00:05:11.404
love that you said rejection because that's what ghosting feels like.
00:05:11.435 --> 00:05:15.504
Ghosting feels like I was rejected or you were rejected.
00:05:15.865 --> 00:05:18.235
And it isn't usually, like you said, about you.
00:05:18.324 --> 00:05:24.175
It is about that person, whether it's, they don't have time, they're not into you, they can't handle your drama.
00:05:24.365 --> 00:05:27.605
Maybe that's about you, but at the same time, it really is about them.
00:05:27.985 --> 00:05:29.665
But we still feel rejected.
00:05:30.154 --> 00:05:35.915
And so it's important because that is how we start to look at ourselves in future relationships.
00:05:36.134 --> 00:05:36.855
Exactly.
00:05:36.865 --> 00:05:38.855
Whether it's friendships, girlfriendships.
00:05:39.035 --> 00:05:39.774
Girlfriendships?
00:05:39.774 --> 00:05:40.305
Is that a word?
00:05:40.375 --> 00:05:40.865
Oh, you
00:05:40.865 --> 00:05:41.535
just made it one.
00:05:41.834 --> 00:05:42.305
Girlfriendships.
00:05:42.314 --> 00:05:42.834
I like that.
00:05:42.865 --> 00:05:43.904
I do too, actually.
00:05:44.125 --> 00:05:46.615
But yeah, that's how it sets forward.
00:05:46.725 --> 00:05:55.894
If we use boundaries and we set them in a healthy way, it really can increase our mental health because we know we've set this boundaries.
00:05:55.915 --> 00:06:04.754
It allows us to protect our emotional well being by making it very clear what we will again and will not accept in relationships.
00:06:04.954 --> 00:06:07.845
And this clarity can reduce anxiety and resentment.
00:06:07.845 --> 00:06:09.605
See, there's that R word resentment.
00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:15.670
in individuals, and it helps others feel very empowered because they can advocate for their needs.
00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:19.009
And when you can advocate for your needs, you feel like a badass.
00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:19.589
Yeah.
00:06:19.589 --> 00:06:33.334
And when you feel in control of the situation, whether someone does ghost you or not, and you have already clearly set boundaries, and then this happens, you can know, okay, I've done what I need to do on my side of this whole thing.
00:06:33.334 --> 00:06:34.845
Friendship or relationship.
00:06:34.855 --> 00:06:45.475
So that's on them, and you can move forward with it when you feel secure and yourself, but we need to talk about how setting boundaries is so difficult.
00:06:45.555 --> 00:06:53.305
It's, it's hard to do even with Jess and I having years of, schooling and therapy and working with our clients.
00:06:53.524 --> 00:07:08.040
It's still hard to do even on a personal level, especially as women and especially where we are taught as women to say yes to everything and be everything and do everything like we talk about in our kin keeping series and stuff like that.
00:07:08.290 --> 00:07:18.730
And that when we say no or when we set a boundary, we're being rude or we're being a bitch or we're being uncooperative or we're not being a team player, and that's ridiculous.
00:07:18.730 --> 00:07:20.120
And we then.
00:07:20.471 --> 00:07:28.021
struggle with guilt over this or fear or feeling bad if we assert these boundaries and that's bullshit.
00:07:28.112 --> 00:07:28.882
It is bullshit.
00:07:29.052 --> 00:07:36.271
The other thing too, is that most of us are very giving, giving of our time, giving of our, whatever it is that we have to offer.
00:07:36.552 --> 00:07:38.762
And people will take advantage of that.
00:07:39.031 --> 00:07:40.696
If we don't set hard boundaries, we will.
00:07:40.846 --> 00:07:44.576
they'll be like, Oh, well, her time's not important or, Oh, that doesn't matter.
00:07:44.596 --> 00:07:47.237
Or they'll take advantage because they can.
00:07:47.437 --> 00:07:53.266
We live in a very much like me centered society where everybody is looking inward.
00:07:53.286 --> 00:07:56.877
And a lot of people don't have empathy or understanding for other people.
00:07:57.096 --> 00:08:04.747
So if you do not set those hard boundaries, it is just going to happen that you're going to get probably walked all over.
00:08:04.757 --> 00:08:24.706
And you're, that can happen if Because people are just going full speed ahead, thinking about themselves, and like you said if you don't signal that somebody's coming over into your lane, it's going to cause an accident, and that's what happens is that people are just going full speed ahead and not signaling that they're going left or right, and then, these, mishaps happens.
00:08:24.956 --> 00:08:27.187
And communication goes out the window
00:08:27.216 --> 00:08:30.216
it's like when you're at Trader Joe's and you're like, Ooh, I want this.
00:08:30.216 --> 00:08:37.956
And you're not realizing that there's this pattern going and you just cut across the line and bump into people, that's me entirely, but that's what it is.
00:08:38.197 --> 00:08:45.386
But the thing I want to also clarify, there is a difference between the boundaries and ghosting because ghosting, you're not setting an example.
00:08:45.397 --> 00:08:46.537
You're not setting rules.
00:08:46.567 --> 00:08:48.256
You're not telling people how you want to be treated.
00:08:48.256 --> 00:08:49.356
You're just like this.
00:08:49.386 --> 00:08:49.876
I'm out.
00:08:49.876 --> 00:08:50.116
Yeah.
00:08:50.116 --> 00:08:51.836
You're not communicating either.
00:08:51.846 --> 00:09:03.106
Like it is emotionally mature to say to somebody, listen, this, relationship, this conversation, this friendship, whatever it is, this partnership is not working for me.
00:09:03.126 --> 00:09:04.456
I'm not comfortable with this.
00:09:04.746 --> 00:09:07.836
I don't feel like we're, getting anywhere positive with this.
00:09:08.116 --> 00:09:09.811
There's a million ways that you can just say.
00:09:09.871 --> 00:09:17.211
And then cut off communication if you want, but it doesn't hurt to say that one thing like I, I just want to close out this relationship.
00:09:17.211 --> 00:09:18.182
This is where I'm at.
00:09:18.412 --> 00:09:24.152
And I don't want to move forward instead of just like being like, they don't, I don't owe anybody anything.
00:09:24.182 --> 00:09:26.751
Really, you don't owe anybody anything.
00:09:26.761 --> 00:09:27.631
You don't, but
00:09:27.631 --> 00:09:28.431
this is part two.
00:09:28.432 --> 00:09:30.504
I'm going to be talking a little bit about the concept of helping you grow as a person.
00:09:30.815 --> 00:09:32.365
Again, this isn't about the other person.
00:09:32.365 --> 00:09:34.615
This is about you being able to communicate your needs.
00:09:34.615 --> 00:09:36.695
And the need is, I don't want to hang out with you anymore.
00:09:36.695 --> 00:09:38.235
Or the need is, I don't like you.
00:09:38.245 --> 00:09:40.434
Or, I don't see us going anywhere.
00:09:40.455 --> 00:09:42.044
Or, whatever that need is.
00:09:42.485 --> 00:09:42.945
Do you remember that?
00:09:42.945 --> 00:09:44.134
It's not you, it's me.
00:09:44.534 --> 00:09:46.514
Right, and then we went from that to ghosting.
00:09:46.575 --> 00:09:51.534
If you set a boundary and then these people are not respecting your boundary, then I'm like, cool, ghost them.
00:09:51.725 --> 00:09:52.134
Right.
00:09:52.144 --> 00:09:53.455
Then you can go ahead and block them.
00:09:53.455 --> 00:09:54.975
This isn't working, block.
00:09:55.855 --> 00:10:04.004
If it's also unsafe for you to set the boundary and you're like, hmm, he's a creeper, I'm just going to block him because I don't know what's going to have all
00:10:04.004 --> 00:10:04.995
rights to do that
00:10:05.325 --> 00:10:06.014
if it's safety.
00:10:06.445 --> 00:10:07.365
Right, exactly.
00:10:07.629 --> 00:10:16.149
But part of this is that when you can assert yourself and talk about your needs, that is when you are becoming emotionally mature.
00:10:16.309 --> 00:10:18.200
And that right there is amazing.
00:10:18.340 --> 00:10:18.730
Right.
00:10:18.750 --> 00:10:21.610
And that really helps normalize this.
00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:33.879
Because when people see you also setting your boundaries, then that also opens up a door for them to feel like, okay, maybe I can set my own boundaries too, so when you practice these things, other people see that.
00:10:34.970 --> 00:10:36.340
able to pick up on that.
00:10:36.669 --> 00:10:39.590
And that's how, we can open this up.
00:10:39.590 --> 00:10:46.000
So it's more commonplace for everybody to be setting boundaries and have better, clearer communication.
00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:57.559
And really the way you can support somebody's boundaries is offering validation and encouragement, reminding them it's okay to prioritize their own wellbeing and say no, or setting limits.
00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:01.379
It's not a reflection on their worth or, or their kindness.
00:11:01.703 --> 00:11:10.024
I was just talking to Randy before about this podcast is that somebody tried to set a boundary with me recently, and I said, I hear that you're trying to set a hard boundary.
00:11:10.350 --> 00:11:13.690
however, that's not a boundary you can set in my house.
00:11:14.027 --> 00:11:14.356
Right.
00:11:14.376 --> 00:11:17.557
Because it was superseding a boundary that you were placing.
00:11:17.576 --> 00:11:17.777
Right.
00:11:17.797 --> 00:11:18.307
You can't put
00:11:18.307 --> 00:11:20.187
a boundary on me because I put a boundary on you.
00:11:20.567 --> 00:11:21.846
And it doesn't work like that.
00:11:21.856 --> 00:11:22.167
Right.
00:11:22.216 --> 00:11:24.047
you have the right to say that doesn't work.
00:11:24.047 --> 00:11:24.547
I'm sorry.
00:11:24.557 --> 00:11:27.746
If your boundary doesn't work with mine, then something else has to happen.
00:11:27.797 --> 00:11:28.106
Right.
00:11:28.106 --> 00:11:29.797
We need to compromise somewhere else.
00:11:29.937 --> 00:11:31.567
Or, if I'm the adult, that's,
00:11:31.616 --> 00:11:33.326
we're not going to agree to disagree.
00:11:33.346 --> 00:11:36.657
Sometimes the boundary is then we can't hang out or we can't do this anymore.
00:11:36.706 --> 00:11:37.606
If this isn't going to work.
00:11:37.616 --> 00:11:42.317
If this is mine and that's yours and they don't meet up on the same corner, then that's okay.
00:11:42.447 --> 00:11:43.996
But it means that we can't continue.
00:11:44.037 --> 00:11:46.037
And so that is setting a hard boundary.
00:11:46.307 --> 00:11:47.476
Randy, let's go and answer
00:11:47.496 --> 00:11:48.746
our have you evers.
00:11:49.264 --> 00:11:52.394
how is ghosting different from setting boundaries?
00:11:52.465 --> 00:11:52.684
Oh,
00:11:53.085 --> 00:11:54.245
I guess we just did that.
00:11:54.294 --> 00:12:01.745
Yeah, ghosting, just to reiterate, is when somebody abruptly cuts off all communication without any exclamation.
00:12:01.745 --> 00:12:03.254
It's like the silent statement.
00:12:03.674 --> 00:12:08.034
That they are no longer interested in continuing the relationship or friendship with you.
00:12:08.335 --> 00:12:14.534
Whereas setting boundaries is a healthy practice where you can communicate your limits and needs to others.
00:12:14.804 --> 00:12:16.115
Again, being emotionally mature.
00:12:16.595 --> 00:12:22.514
It's about self respect and mutual understanding, not disappearance without any kind of word or trace.
00:12:23.169 --> 00:12:27.639
So then, Randi, is ghosting ever considered a form of setting
00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:28.220
boundaries?
00:12:28.590 --> 00:12:31.379
It can be in very rare circumstances.
00:12:31.419 --> 00:12:47.090
Like we said, when you're dealing with somebody who has toxic behavior, abusive behavior, then that can be viewed as an act of self preservation and taking your safety into consideration, rather than deliberately attempting to just harm the other person.
00:12:47.090 --> 00:12:50.019
by cutting off communication.
00:12:50.397 --> 00:12:58.547
generally in most cases it's just more respectful and it's healthier communication to just set your boundaries early and clearly.
00:12:59.067 --> 00:13:05.567
And I also want to say, if you didn't set your boundaries it's okay to go, hey, I need to go back and reset this boundary.
00:13:05.606 --> 00:13:05.897
Right.
00:13:05.897 --> 00:13:05.917
You
00:13:06.447 --> 00:13:07.067
can change it.
00:13:07.282 --> 00:13:07.532
Yeah.
00:13:07.532 --> 00:13:09.971
You don't have to go, this is my boundary for the rest of my life.
00:13:10.032 --> 00:13:11.442
No, you can go, this isn't working.
00:13:11.491 --> 00:13:13.241
I need to be assertive and set my boundary.
00:13:13.251 --> 00:13:17.351
you can say, Hmm, I thought I didn't have to, or I didn't have to make it as strong, but I do.
00:13:17.782 --> 00:13:18.221
let's say
00:13:18.221 --> 00:13:22.152
you want to ghost the person, but you're trying to be emotionally mature.
00:13:22.491 --> 00:13:29.154
So how do you set a boundary with this person without making them feel like they are ghosted?
00:13:30.154 --> 00:13:31.095
Communication.
00:13:31.149 --> 00:13:34.360
You don't want to be like, I'm not going to talk to you anymore because you're a dick and then ghost him.
00:13:34.419 --> 00:13:35.360
That's still ghosting.
00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:38.649
And it's just, that's back to the, it's not you, it's me.
00:13:38.740 --> 00:13:40.149
But you're really saying, no, it's all you.
00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:43.970
It really doesn't give like an, a deep explanation either.
00:13:43.990 --> 00:13:48.389
Not that you owe anybody like a deep explanation, you could say it a little bit kinder, you can actually say it a lot
00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:48.570
kinder than
00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:49.340
that one,
00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:54.070
but what you want to do is express to somebody what your needs and limits are to the other person.
00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.610
Try to do it in a kind, but firm way.
00:13:56.909 --> 00:14:01.039
Let them know what you're comfortable with and what crosses your line.
00:14:01.070 --> 00:14:04.730
What is that line, that boundary, that, line in the sand kind of idea.
00:14:05.169 --> 00:14:06.879
Be open, give them
00:14:06.929 --> 00:14:12.750
clarity, But don't let them use it as a doorway to keep coming through when you want that to be closed, too.
00:14:12.750 --> 00:14:13.919
It's like a gray area,
