Are you ghosting or setting boundaries?

0:00 Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast. I'm randy. I'm And I'm Jess. And we are two licensed psychotherapists, and this is a safe space where we talk about mental health, well being, and strategies for coping with life's challenges. And how all of this is normal, and you are not alone. Today, we're tackling a topic that's become increasingly relevant in our digital age. Ghosting versus setting boundaries. We're going to define both concepts. I think we all know what ghosting is, but we're going to go ahead and define that, discuss why they're called ghosting and why setting boundaries is important. and we're going to talk about how it affects our mental health as women and teach some better boundary setting skills for you guys.

0:40 You can find us and more resources on womensmentalhealthpodcast. com. Have you ever had these thoughts? What is ghosting and how is it different from setting boundaries? Is ghosting ever considered a form of setting boundaries? How can I set boundaries without making other people feel like they've been ghosted? Why do people even ghost others? Because they're assholes. What are the psychological effects of being ghosted? How can I cope with the emotional impact of being ghosted? Can setting boundaries lead to healthier relationships? What should I do if someone I care about starts to ghost me or is starting to set really strong boundaries? How can I communicate my boundaries without feeling guilty or selfish?

1:23 Are there any long term consequences of ghosting someone on my own mental health or setting really hard boundaries with someone as well? So let's start by defining the term ghosting. Ghosting is a term used to describe the act of suddenly cutting off all communication without explanation. So it's often seen in the dating world, but it can also happen in friendships or with professional relationships. And the person who is ghosted is often left feeling like there's no closure or they're confused why this relationship or friendship has ended. Where, yeah, exactly. Right. They're like, what's going on. Right. So on the other hand, setting boundaries involves very clear communication limits or rules in a relationship that protects your mental health and emotional well being.

2:13 It's intentional, it's respectful, it's a way to establish with others how you want to be treated, what behaviors are acceptable, and what are not. And this can help you make sure that your values are honored. So the term ghosting comes from the idea of someone disappearing like a ghost, like poof, So suddenly without a trace and it's a phenomenon that has become more and more common with the rise of social media and digital communication where people can easily cut ties and ignore messages or they can block contacts and this makes me think of that MTV show that was popular for a long time, catfishing. Where like people would just say they were somebody or somebody else. And then just cut off communication.

2:54 And the person is like, what's happening? I thought we were in love. Well, and I think everybody has been ghosted or has ghosted somebody. Yeah. Whether intentionally or not, but I think everybody has at least been ghosted once. Whether it's part of the mean girl club, whether it was somebody you're dating or that was trying to date you. I think everyone's experienced this. Yeah. When we set boundaries, it is telling people how you want to be treated. Imagine it like this. Being on a freeway or highway, there are lines that are solid. There are lines that are dotted. We have those little bumpy things. We have, some of us have the high occupancy or carpool lanes.

3:36 We have, big dividers in the middle of our freeway. freeways or highways. Right. Everybody has different limits, right? And like for some people, they might want to get right up to that line in the middle of the freeway and other people, maybe they want a three foot, space. Exactly. Exactly. And some people, if you don't signal and say, Hey, I'm coming over, they bump you and there's an accident. So imagine that's what boundaries are, what you're willing to tolerate, what you're not going to tolerate. And every time we get resentful. We should have had a better boundary. If I'm like son of a bitch Why did I do that? Damn it. That's not what I wanted. Okay, what could I have done differently, right? It should have set a stronger boundary. Exactly.

4:17 So let's discuss how these behaviors can affect us as women and our mental health So when you are ghosted, it can be a deeply hurtful experience. It can lead you to be confused, feeling rejected, maybe having, self doubt about yourself. What did I do? What's wrong with me? Things like that. And so with the lack of closure, it can really leave you questioning what went wrong and sometimes can trigger anxiety or depressive symptoms. And it can also Undermine your self esteem because a lot of times, especially as women, we internalize rejection and we take that on that we did something wrong and we're unworthy of the relationship and when that usually is not the case when somebody goes to you, it usually has something more to do with them than you.

5:07 I love that you said rejection because that's what ghosting feels like. Ghosting feels like I was rejected or you were rejected. And it isn't usually, like you said, about you. It is about that person, whether it's, they don't have time, they're not into you, they can't handle your drama. Maybe that's about you, but at the same time, it really is about them. But we still feel rejected. And so it's important because that is how we start to look at ourselves in future relationships. Exactly. Whether it's friendships, girlfriendships. Girlfriendships? Is that a word? Oh, you just made it one. Girlfriendships. I like that. I do too, actually. But yeah, that's how it sets forward. If we use boundaries and we set them in a healthy way, it really can increase our mental health because we know we've set this boundaries.

5:55 It allows us to protect our emotional well being by making it very clear what we will again and will not accept in relationships. And this clarity can reduce anxiety and resentment. See, there's that R word resentment. in individuals, and it helps others feel very empowered because they can advocate for their needs. And when you can advocate for your needs, you feel like a badass. Yeah. And when you feel in control of the situation, whether someone does ghost you or not, and you have already clearly set boundaries, and then this happens, you can know, okay, I've done what I need to do on my side of this whole thing. Friendship or relationship. So that's on them, and you can move forward with it when you feel secure and yourself, but we need to talk about how setting boundaries is so difficult.

6:45 It's, it's hard to do even with Jess and I having years of, schooling and therapy and working with our clients. It's still hard to do even on a personal level, especially as women and especially where we are taught as women to say yes to everything and be everything and do everything like we talk about in our kin keeping series and stuff like that. And that when we say no or when we set a boundary, we're being rude or we're being a bitch or we're being uncooperative or we're not being a team player, and that's ridiculous. And we then. struggle with guilt over this or fear or feeling bad if we assert these boundaries and that's bullshit.

7:28 It is bullshit. The other thing too, is that most of us are very giving, giving of our time, giving of our, whatever it is that we have to offer. And people will take advantage of that. If we don't set hard boundaries, we will. they'll be like, Oh, well, her time's not important or, Oh, that doesn't matter. Or they'll take advantage because they can. We live in a very much like me centered society where everybody is looking inward. And a lot of people don't have empathy or understanding for other people. So if you do not set those hard boundaries, it is just going to happen that you're going to get probably walked all over. And you're, that can happen if Because people are just going full speed ahead, thinking about themselves, and like you said if you don't signal that somebody's coming over into your lane, it's going to cause an accident, and that's what happens is that people are just going full speed ahead and not signaling that they're going left or right, and then, these, mishaps happens.

8:24 And communication goes out the window it's like when you're at Trader Joe's and you're like, Ooh, I want this. And you're not realizing that there's this pattern going and you just cut across the line and bump into people, that's me entirely, but that's what it is. But the thing I want to also clarify, there is a difference between the boundaries and ghosting because ghosting, you're not setting an example. You're not setting rules. You're not telling people how you want to be treated. You're just like this. I'm out. Yeah. You're not communicating either. Like it is emotionally mature to say to somebody, listen, this, relationship, this conversation, this friendship, whatever it is, this partnership is not working for me. I'm not comfortable with this. I don't feel like we're, getting anywhere positive with this.

9:08 There's a million ways that you can just say. And then cut off communication if you want, but it doesn't hurt to say that one thing like I, I just want to close out this relationship. This is where I'm at. And I don't want to move forward instead of just like being like, they don't, I don't owe anybody anything. Really, you don't owe anybody anything. You don't, but this is part two. I'm going to be talking a little bit about the concept of helping you grow as a person. Again, this isn't about the other person. This is about you being able to communicate your needs. And the need is, I don't want to hang out with you anymore. Or the need is, I don't like you. Or, I don't see us going anywhere. Or, whatever that need is. Do you remember that? It's not you, it's me. Right, and then we went from that to ghosting. If you set a boundary and then these people are not respecting your boundary, then I'm like, cool, ghost them.

9:51 Right. Then you can go ahead and block them. This isn't working, block. If it's also unsafe for you to set the boundary and you're like, hmm, he's a creeper, I'm just going to block him because I don't know what's going to have all rights to do that if it's safety. Right, exactly. But part of this is that when you can assert yourself and talk about your needs, that is when you are becoming emotionally mature. And that right there is amazing. Right. And that really helps normalize this. Because when people see you also setting your boundaries, then that also opens up a door for them to feel like, okay, maybe I can set my own boundaries too, so when you practice these things, other people see that.

10:34 able to pick up on that. And that's how, we can open this up. So it's more commonplace for everybody to be setting boundaries and have better, clearer communication. And really the way you can support somebody's boundaries is offering validation and encouragement, reminding them it's okay to prioritize their own wellbeing and say no, or setting limits. It's not a reflection on their worth or, or their kindness. I was just talking to Randy before about this podcast is that somebody tried to set a boundary with me recently, and I said, I hear that you're trying to set a hard boundary. however, that's not a boundary you can set in my house. Right. Because it was superseding a boundary that you were placing.

11:17 Right. You can't put a boundary on me because I put a boundary on you. And it doesn't work like that. Right. you have the right to say that doesn't work. I'm sorry. If your boundary doesn't work with mine, then something else has to happen. Right. We need to compromise somewhere else. Or, if I'm the adult, that's, we're not going to agree to disagree. Sometimes the boundary is then we can't hang out or we can't do this anymore. If this isn't going to work. If this is mine and that's yours and they don't meet up on the same corner, then that's okay. But it means that we can't continue. And so that is setting a hard boundary. Randy, let's go and answer our have you evers. how is ghosting different from setting boundaries? Oh, I guess we just did that. Yeah, ghosting, just to reiterate, is when somebody abruptly cuts off all communication without any exclamation.

12:01 It's like the silent statement. That they are no longer interested in continuing the relationship or friendship with you. Whereas setting boundaries is a healthy practice where you can communicate your limits and needs to others. Again, being emotionally mature. It's about self respect and mutual understanding, not disappearance without any kind of word or trace. So then, Randi, is ghosting ever considered a form of setting boundaries? It can be in very rare circumstances. Like we said, when you're dealing with somebody who has toxic behavior, abusive behavior, then that can be viewed as an act of self preservation and taking your safety into consideration, rather than deliberately attempting to just harm the other person.

12:47 by cutting off communication. generally in most cases it's just more respectful and it's healthier communication to just set your boundaries early and clearly. And I also want to say, if you didn't set your boundaries it's okay to go, hey, I need to go back and reset this boundary. Right. You can change it. Yeah. You don't have to go, this is my boundary for the rest of my life. No, you can go, this isn't working. I need to be assertive and set my boundary. you can say, Hmm, I thought I didn't have to, or I didn't have to make it as strong, but I do. let's say you want to ghost the person, but you're trying to be emotionally mature. So how do you set a boundary with this person without making them feel like they are ghosted?

13:30 Communication. You don't want to be like, I'm not going to talk to you anymore because you're a dick and then ghost him. That's still ghosting. And it's just, that's back to the, it's not you, it's me. But you're really saying, no, it's all you. It really doesn't give like an, a deep explanation either. Not that you owe anybody like a deep explanation, you could say it a little bit kinder, you can actually say it a lot kinder than that one, but what you want to do is express to somebody what your needs and limits are to the other person. Try to do it in a kind, but firm way. Let them know what you're comfortable with and what crosses your line. What is that line, that boundary, that, line in the sand kind of idea. Be open, give them clarity, But don't let them use it as a doorway to keep coming through when you want that to be closed, too.

14:12 It's like a gray area, exactly. The thing with boundaries is that you don't have to explain to somebody why. This isn't working. Why not? It just isn't. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm just in a place where this is not good for me. Well, how come you don't have to tell anybody any of that kind of stuff? It's like the more ammo or info you give them, the more they can weed through it. But you can easily say this isn't working or I'm in a place this no longer works for me or I don't want to do this anymore, which is that's a hard one for women to say. I don't want this. Whoo, or no. Whoo, that one. Well, and I want to say too when we were talking about that about validating and encouraging people when they are setting boundaries how important that is because In the few instances where I have told just something and said Oh, I can't do this because I have this appointment or this and she goes, Oh, I like the way you're setting that boundary or I hear what you're saying.

15:07 And that's a good boundary. And I always like. Okay. And then I was like, no, but that's good. Cause it's making me reinforce that what I'm doing is okay. And that she's okay with what I'm doing too. And she's hearing me and I'm hearing her and I've never had anybody say those words to me before. And it is so empowering and encouraging that, okay, I could do this with other friends. too. And I, I want friends that respect my boundaries and hear me, and vice versa. And so I think that that's so important that that, reinforces that. And usually it's over time. Cause I'm like, Ooh, I can be there at four. Like today I'll be there at four. Oh, I can be here at three 30. Oh, I can even be at three. And she's I got an appointment at three. We can do four.

15:47 Okay, cool. So I show up at four 15 anyway, she's setting her boundary versus going, Oh, okay, let me cancel my appointments and do this and that and this and that. She's going, no, no, I already have this. This is our plan. Stay in your lane. Let's keep going. Well, and because we're both ADHD, we tend to be like, oh, this, oh, this, oh, this, oh, this. So we both have to reel each other in, which is gentle, loving. Exactly. Okay. So Randy, why do people ghost others? So there can be so many reasons for this. And sometimes, or usually it's to avoid confrontation or the discomfort of telling someone that they're not interested in the relationship or friendship. It could be out of fear of how the other person might react to the bad news or breakup.

16:30 It's important to remember that wall ghosting can really reflect on the person doing it. It is still deeply hurtful, and when we don't have closure and understanding, especially when it's so easy to communicate these days and send a quick text message or email this isn't working for me, instead of just poof Gone. And as women, we tend to dive off the deep end and FBI agent, like trying to track down this person, like what happened, so just what are some of the psychological effects then that can happen after being ghosted? I just have to go back for a second. I was laughing. That's when I show up places. I'm like, Randy, don't tag me anywhere. Don't tell anybody I'm here.

17:10 Don't tag me. Just don't tell people don't tag me. Cause I was like, don't tag me. That's not ghosting. That's not ghosting. FBI agent. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not here, don't tag me. Okay, so the psychological effects of ghosting I actually have seen this quite a bit throughout the last, 10 or 15 years. We call it different back then as well, back then, like 15 years ago, it was way back in the day. I'm from the 1900s. Oh my god. That's what my son likes to say. It's So I'm slow, bear with me. But some people don't understand kids start ghosting other kids at like 3rd grade, 4th grade. It happens really early on in relationships nowadays and it's even more confusing when they don't have the emotional maturity to deal with it.

17:57 Exactly. And so what it does is it sets up these people thinking I have this really good friend that all of a sudden they don't like me anymore and I don't know why they don't like me because they never told me or they gave me some bullshit reason because they, of whatever. And again, it's so hard because that doesn't come up for, 20, 30 years later that they're like, I can't make friends. And you're like, well, where does this come back from? And when you find out it's because of this relationship in elementary school, you're like, wow. Okay. So you've been hanging on to that when it wasn't about you. It was about that person. that's what this does is it really causes this issue because if we don't have closure, we're going to question what we did wrong.

18:39 We're going to think it was our fault. So then how do we cope with this? So you realize that there's like this effect going on and that you've been holding on to this maybe rejection. So how do you cope with the emotional impact of that once this has happened? Acknowledge how you feel. I always say validate your feelings. Acknowledge how you feel. It's okay to be hurt. It's okay to be confused. It is a form of loss and grief and that's a very natural thing. Lean on your support group, lean on your network. Don't be afraid to talk it out. Don't chase the person that ghosted you down though. Please don't do that. Don't keep calling him and texting them and doing all of that. Why aren't you talking to me? Don't go on catfish, never ends well.

19:22 No, it never ends well, but practice your self care. And if you can't get past this, go talk to somebody who can help you get past this. As we always say, go get some therapy, talk to a counselor, talk to somebody else who has been in the same situation or who can look at this through a different lens and help you through this. Rani, can setting boundaries lead to healthier relationships? Oh, definitely. It can lead to healthier relationships and more sustainable relationships, making them more resilient. Because it really fosters mutual respect and understanding, like how I was talking about Jess and I and our give and take about reinforcing our boundaries because when everyone knows where they stand.

20:02 It helps prevent resentment, like we were talking about, and misunderstandings, and it really allows for you to have a safe space within that relationship. So Jess, what should we do if you are noticing or someone is starting to ghost you? You can tell maybe the relationship is at the tail end, and I think our, our reflex, our intuition, I don't know. I don't know where I was going with that. No, there's a word. There's a word. Our, our response. Keep going. Okay. So I think like we generally want to hold on to something when we feel like we're, yeah, when we're losing control and it might not necessarily be into the response.

20:45 We might know like this relationship needs to be, poof. We might know that it's nearing its end. But. It's, loss is really hard, like no matter what it is, if it's a good thing or a bad thing. And what do we do when we feel that that's happening to us? I think one of the things is that if you feel this is happening, don't assume immediately that they're ghosting. Don't make it all about you immediately. Because if somebody shows up and says, you have your hands up, she raised her hand. I had an aha moment. I know. Okay. Have a conversation face to face. Yeah. Not over text message. Well, it depends. Yeah. If the person is going to be more responsive over text, then do it over text. Right. Don't require them meet with you face to face because a lot of people, they're even bigger chickens in person.

21:29 That's true. And so what you want to do is you want to say, Hey, I want to check in and see how things are going. You seem like maybe you're having a tough time. Give them that benefit of the doubt or that grace to say, I just want to see how you're doing. And if they say, I'm fine, I'm great, I'm busy. Okay, great. Give it a little bit more time. And then if it continues and they're not responding or you're feeling ghosted, that's when you can say, you can make this on your terms. I feel like this isn't, a mutual relationship. So I'm going to go ahead and give you the space that you need. And that is your own closure. I'm like, what's that word? What's a C word? What's a C word? And this reminds me, this just happened to a friend of mine too.

22:11 She was telling me that one of her closest, oldest friends, all of a sudden just started like backing away from their friendship and she couldn't understand why. And the friend had say I want you to put some more, effort into me, some more time into me or whatever. And she flew out of state to go see her friend and showed up at her work with flowers and I'm here. And the friend was kind of like, what? Like she was like, I thought we were trying to work on our friendship and you wanted me to pour into your friendship. And then she all of a sudden couldn't make time for her and couldn't be there for her and things, that she would normally like move around for her if she would come, visit her, she was just like, I just can't. I don't have time for you. And then she was like, okay, well, let me know when you want to talk.

22:52 And then she was like, I know you want to talk, but I'm just not ready. And she was like, okay she kept trying and trying. And then she was finally like, when you're ready. Okay, but for now I just gotta move on from this. And even if you tell that person when you're ready, because you at that moment really mean, when you're ready I'll be here for you, when they come back and if you're like, yeah, nah bitch, I'm done, I'm good, I don't need you, you can say, unfortunately, that's how I felt then, but I don't feel like that anymore. I wish you the best of luck. Yeah. So you don't have to be, You don't have to, yeah, and you don't have to leave that door open indefinitely unless that's what you really want. But if you do feel like you've been, slighted and ghosted and pushed away, you also, have the right to install your own boundary with that.

23:37 Mm hmm. So with that, is that if you have every right to protect your own mental health. And if you're chasing, the story you were just saying felt like she was chasing this person down, that doesn't seem very healthy. What I'm talking about is saying, Hey, reach out. And if they're still not giving you anything, you can say, Hey, this doesn't feel very mutual. I want relationships and friendships where I get something out of it. I want, just like I want them to get something out of me. I don't want to be the one that's always giving, giving, giving. I get depleted. Yeah. It needs to be a give and take. And I feel like a lot of relationships and friendships, especially can be one sided. You can pay me 175 an hour for that. And I can be your one side person, but I don't want that in my real life.

24:20 Right. Cause that's the difference is that I don't want to be somebody's therapist in my real life. And I don't want to be their mom because I've already got two kids. Exactly. So that's the difference. Oh, that's me being snarky today. Sorry. Okay. So Randy, how can I communicate my boundaries without feeling guilty or selfish? Cause this is huge. Okay. Boundaries. are not selfish and boundaries are part of your mental health, your wellbeing and part of self care. So you have to learn how to balance your needs with the ability to be understanding and compassionate and empathetic towards others, but not have it overrun your whole life. And when you communicate, be very transparent and use I statements or I feel, or I need focus what it is about on your feelings.

25:07 You don't want to place blame like, you're doing this. So this is why I need I need this because I'm at a point in my life right now where I need to focus on my mental well being. So take that little pointer finger and every time you point it at the other person, you are no longer using an I statement. I feel like I need Peace in my life that isn't saying I feel like I need a break from you because every time I say you now I'm pointing the finger back right? So you've got to keep it on you. I statements are really really hard So what are long term consequences that can come up from ghosting someone? It could feel like the easy way out in the short term.

25:49 However, in the long run, I really feel that it leads to feelings of guilt or regret because you know you were being a dick when you ghosted somebody and you weren't being the nicest person you can. I also think it hinders your ability to develop stronger relationship skills and communication skills. When I talk about this emotional intelligence, if you're uncomfortable in all of your future situations, you're not going to grow if you're going to continue to ghost people every time you feel like your feelings are hurt or you're uncomfortable. And we also did a podcast you guys can check out about how to have difficult conversations where we do a little bit more depth into like role playing and statements and things like that. So you can definitely check that out on our website too.

26:31 Yeah, this is about being emotionally intelligent. I find honestly that these ninth graders are more emotionally intelligent and it's sad, but amazing at the same time. They are more in touch with their feelings than people that I know that are our age. So if you've been ghosted, it's important to remember that the act of ghosting reflects more on the ghoster than you, and really seek support from friends or a therapist to process your feelings that arise and reinforce your self worth. When you understand that the ghosting is often a result of the other person's inability to communicate. It really helps. Mitigate the self blame and while ghosting and setting boundaries both involve disengagement, they both involve you no longer being in this relationship or changing the rules of the relationship.

27:19 They are very fundamentally different with their intent and the impact it has on others. So just remember, ghosting can harm mental health to you and others. And it really creates this feeling of self doubt while setting boundaries can really enhance well being and establish very clear and respectful limits. Thank you for joining us. If you found this episode helpful, please share it and leave us a review. Remember advocating for your mental health and well being is a powerful and necessary act. As always, take care of yourself and each other. We'll see you next time on the Women's Mental Health Podcast.