Battling Burnout and Regaining Balance

Ep 19 Burnout 

[00:00:00] Randi: 1, 2, 3, 4. Hi friends. It's Randy and Jess, and we're gonna cut the 

[00:00:07] Jess: bullshit and let's get into women's mental health.

[00:00:14] Randi: Welcome to the podcast unapologetically All over the place with Randy and Jess, where we talk about women's mental health issues and how it's all normal. In this episode, we're gonna talk about being burnt out, how to recognize it and what to do about. It seems like 

[00:00:30] Jess: fall gets crazy busy and the feelings of being burnt out really set in, like really set in, right?

Yeah. 

[00:00:36] Randi: We're both feeling it right now, right? So this week 

[00:00:39] Jess: we're gonna explore the symptoms of burnout, how to recognize it and what you can do about it. 

[00:00:45] Randi: Stick with us and we're gonna tell you how you can get a copy of living your life to the fullest and minimizing your stress at the end of our podcast.

Woohoo. 

[00:00:53] Jess: We have some free giveaways. Yeah, we love 

[00:00:55] Randi: it. We love free giveaways. We love giving away shit, and we love getting shit . Right? Okay, so 

[00:01:00] Jess: have you ever thought, 

[00:01:02] Randi: I'm so freaking tired and it's only Monday, I just 

[00:01:07] Jess: need to make it to 

[00:01:08] Randi: Friday, or as soon as the holidays are over, I can take a breath, I can rest.

I feel 

[00:01:14] Jess: so 

[00:01:15] Randi: run down. I'm so tired, but I slept like all night last night. What's going on? 

[00:01:21] Jess: Everything is irritating me. Everything . Everyone is irritating 

[00:01:27] Randi: me. I wish I could just do whatever, A, B, C, fold my laundry and feel productive. You're not feeling yourself like at all, like no matter what task you. What 

[00:01:37] Jess: is burnout?

[00:01:39] Randi: So it's a condition that is very commonly experienced in different areas of your life. It can affect your home life, your work life. Um, you kind of develop depression like symptoms as a result of. The role that you play, like whether it's being like, you know, the mom who does everything, you know, or the boss.

Or the worker that's overworked. So doing too much shit. Yeah, basically . Okay. Doing all the shit and like not having any outlet so it can manifest in different ways. And what are those ways? Physical. Mm-hmm. , 

[00:02:12] Jess: right? You're physically, you can feel sick, depressed, anxious, um, mental. You can't think, you can't focus, uh, don't wanna be here.

Um, it can be emotional. Can't figure out why you're crying all the time. You just can't care 

[00:02:29] Randi: those signs and symptoms and kind of delve a little bit deeper into them. So, physical, you said like feeling tired. What can that look. 

[00:02:37] Jess: Waking up, tired. Mm-hmm. , I mean, just waking up and being like, Did I even sleep last night?

Right, right. Just like not having energy or even having a difficult time sleeping. I know. Testing and turning a lot. Yeah. Or you're like, I keep waking up at two or three and you don't know 

[00:02:50] Randi: why. Yeah. You're not getting that deep REM sleep and things like 

[00:02:53] Jess: that. Dealing with headaches or tension. Headaches, right?

Mm-hmm. , like right in the back of your neck. Yeah. Or changes in appetite. Maybe you're hungry or maybe you're not eating. 

[00:03:05] Randi: Yeah. Yeah. I think with me, like, uh, a lot of times, like I don't eat enough when I'm burnt out, it's like I'm just so tired. Like it's like the last thing, like I wanna like worry 

[00:03:13] Jess: about, see, I think when I'm tired, I think that, Oh, I'm gonna go eat something.

It'll make me feel better. Cause something is wrong. Right? 

[00:03:21] Randi: And so you're using that to fill that hole. And a lot of time it is either emotional or like you're thirsty. Like we were talking about, like you need water, right? Water. Emotionally, it can kinda look like feeling unmotivated. 

[00:03:35] Jess: Oh gosh. Uh, like the imposter syndrome, right?

Like what we talked about. What was that? Episode 11? Yes. Imposter syndrome. Feeling like you don't fit in feeling like you know, you're doubting 

[00:03:45] Randi: yourself. A burnout can play hand in hand with imposter send syndrome, so definitely give that a listen on that episode. 

[00:03:54] Jess: And just overall feeling unhappy. Mm-hmm.

like, you don't like your life, you don't like your job, you don't like who you are, nothing's measuring up. And then there's also like behavioral stuff that happens, right? There's like not performing, there's, you know, socially isolating. 

[00:04:11] Randi: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Pulling away from like friends and family and your social supports and stuff.

Cuz you're just like, I just can't even think the. with anything or anyone right now, like you feel like you have no energy left to give. Right. 

[00:04:24] Jess: Um, you know what was interesting is when we were like going over this, Randy and I were looking and you know, there's actually like five stages and I didn't realize even as a therapist that there's.

Five stages of 

[00:04:35] Randi: burnout, right? Like, you know, they talk about like the stages of um, like your self needs and then the stages or the hierarchy and or the stages of grief and things like that. Like I did not realize either that there was actually these stages of burnout. So you can kind of try to like catch them before they happen if you become aware of them.

[00:04:55] Jess: Because I thought, Oh, you just wake up one day and you're burnt out. Right. But there's actually stages that lead us there. So 

[00:05:01] Randi: first stage is what Randy? The honeymoon phase. So that's like, kind of like what they call, like everything stars in your eyes. Everything's great. Like, you know, you have energy and you have optimism, but you can kind of, you're kind of hedging towards, oh no, maybe something's a little bit off.

Mm. 

[00:05:17] Jess: So that's when you're like, I know I can do it. I can do it, I can get through it. I can totally do it. I you're 

[00:05:22] Randi: ignoring all. Flag. So yes, just like when we talked about like, uh, gaslighting and stuff like that in that episode. Okay, So you're 

[00:05:29] Jess: gaslighting yourself. Yes, apparently with burnout. Okay. So then the next stage would be stress, 

[00:05:36] Randi: the stress phase.

So like the honeymoon phase is dwindling out and you are noticing stress creeping up on you more than normal. And then what is the after that chronic stress. So it's like you're in full stress mode. You're like living in that stressed mindset and environment. Just like this is just what it is. Like I'm, You're just like going, going, going.

So it's like you're basically like in panic mode. Okay. And then after that, and then you're in full burnout. 

[00:06:04] Jess: Okay, so that's four. Full burnout. Mm-hmm. . Okay, so then what's the fifth? 

[00:06:08] Randi: The fifth stage is you can be habitually burn out. So you can just actually, you know, like we said, chronic stress. You can be chronically burn out, like you're just pushing yourself through the motions over and over again, and you're not taking care of yourself and you're just so exhausted, You're so tired, you're so overwhelmed, but you're just like putting yourself through the pace.

[00:06:26] Jess: Yeah. That's interesting. You know, and like eight weeks ago I took on a new, um, we're gonna call it just a new, new job, right? Yeah. I just took on extra stuff. Yeah. And I had warned everybody, but yeah, I can totally see, like I knew this was gonna burn me out. Mm-hmm. and I can totally see the phases now that we're looking at it.

Oh, that's 

[00:06:45] Randi: where I was started falling off. You know, Especially 

[00:06:47] Jess: they optimistic. Right. Cause I was like, Oh yeah, I could totally do it. And you were like, What are you doing? What are you doing? I'm dunno. Scared . I was like, No, no, I can do it. I can 

[00:06:56] Randi: do it. I can do it. I can do it all. But it's like, yeah, we can like talk ourselves up.

Yeah. You know, kind of onto this ledge. And then we're like looking over the edge and then it's like we're falling down and it's like, oh crap. You know? And then you're at the bottom of the canyon, you just fell off the ledge and it's like, what did I do? And like, Oh my gosh. And like you could have prevented it 

[00:07:12] Jess: with what I did.

I chose. So I knew I was doing it, so you might as well just dive into that. That ledge, right? Yeah. That's just like jumping off. But 

[00:07:20] Randi: you were, but since you were self aware of that, you were able to combat Yes. It a little bit and know like, okay, I need to pull back in these areas. I'm not gonna be able to give in this area.

Like I can't be a social maybe like right now because, and this is for a limited time. Mm-hmm. sometimes, like we can feel this way, like with our home. Being a mother, like we can get burnt out. Like giving and giving to like our family and our children. We can, 

[00:07:42] Jess: and there was no in time with that. I, I will tell you, there is no in time with any of 

[00:07:47] Randi: that.

There's no end inside. And so like, that's why you can just be habitually burnt out. Like it's like forever and ever and it can feel like there's no end. And like how do you climb out of that when you are in this almost like survival mode of being burnt out? Especially 

[00:08:03] Jess: with kids who are neuro divergent.

Mm-hmm. and special needs. And special needs. It is ongoing. And I think you don't even realize how ongoing it is because it's always been your life with them. Mm-hmm. . Right. And so sometimes it's easier to be burnt out 

[00:08:19] Randi: like that. It is. And that just becomes your date of living, but then that affects your mental.

Your physical health, all those things, because we, as we've come to know with more and more research that, you know, stress is really hard on your body. 

[00:08:34] Jess: So wait, what's the difference between stress and burnout then? Because I think we interchange those all the time. I'm stressed, I'm burnt, I'm stressed, I'm burnt.

I mean, those are two different 

[00:08:42] Randi: things. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And that this can be really, really hard to understand. And it was kinda hard for me to wrap. Head around too is that stress is almost like having like too much on your plate, too much work, like too many responsibilities, and you're kind of like worried, I guess, about that.

Burnout is like, you feel almost like you don't have enough, like you're not motivated enough, you don't have enough energy, you don't have enough time to care for yourself. 

[00:09:09] Jess: So stress is saying, Okay, I've got too much going on. There's too much happening. And you're aware about burnout is kind of when you just stop caring?

Yeah. You can't, You're just beyond. You're beyond care. You're beyond the stress. Cuz you've already passed these different stages, right? Yeah. You've already. Past chronic stress. 

[00:09:27] Randi: Yeah, I, So I like to think of it like quick burning candle. Oh. Like, it's like, oh, it's all pretty, like at the, you know, the top of the candle, it's burning and you're like, This smells good.

You're like loving it. And then it's like, wait, it's melting. It's melting. It's melting. Okay. I don't know. And then it's like this. Puddle and the light goes out and it's like, okay, what just happened to the candle? Like, so for me, like I visualize things a lot because I'm visual, so I kind of like put like analogies to things like that for some of my clients.

And it's like dressed kind of like burning you. And then the burnout is like, it's all big puddle. Okay, 

[00:10:00] Jess: so that's actually a really cool way of looking at it. Mm-hmm. . Cause you're right. You know, stress is the candle's burning and yeah, it's still burning and burning, but it's not too much. Right. And burnout, there's just, the candle has no use anymore.

I 

[00:10:12] Randi: think sometimes it can be kind of misinterpreted or like misdiagnosed too for like depression, but like this, Thing to understand is that usually burnout is work related or like subject related. You know, it's kind of like you're burnt out in like an area. Yeah. Okay. So it's not affecting like your whole life, but like a section of your life where like something like depression or anxiety or like ADHD affects your whole life.

Whole life. Yeah. And so like that's why that's diagnosable, you know? And that. You know, actually like a mental illness where like burnout is just something that we can like experience in an area of our life. Would we call that a state of 

[00:10:51] Jess: being? It could be. 

[00:10:52] Randi: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That state in relation to your role, like being like, you know, your work role or like your role as a mom or like your role as a friend.

I mean, you can be burnout in all those areas. Interesting. Okay. 

[00:11:05] Jess: I like that. I do, I like that. Burnout also is not diagnosable. Right. I know you, you mentioned the DSM earlier. Um, we can't go. Yeah, yeah. You've gotta, you've got a hard case of a burnout, 

[00:11:16] Randi: Right? That doesn't work. It's a way of explaining how you are basically chronically stressed.

You have just reached a point of no return almost, and you need to figure out how to like help yourself. Okay. 

[00:11:29] Jess: I like that. You know, and the other thing we were, um, when we were looking at all of this is that not only were there different stages mm-hmm. , there are now subtype. I mean, I didn't know we could, We are a society that has done so much research on how much we are burning ourselves 

[00:11:45] Randi: out.

I know. And it's like, oh, then we're spending research, uh, time . We're burning ourselves out on research. 

[00:11:51] Jess: Right. I wanna know, like did the researchers go through and like, did they do self care and self soothing? Well, this was 

[00:11:57] Randi: probably them, you know, like Jess and I will often delve into these deep dive into these subjects cuz we're struggling.

Thing and we wanna know more. So I'm sure these researchers were like so burned out. They're like, What does this cause and effect? You know? Yeah. 

[00:12:10] Jess: Burned out 

[00:12:11] Randi: last research. Yeah. So it's like I did a lot of statistical research, which please it's, I hated that class. Yeah. I luckily had like a teacher that was like a master at it.

He was like a traumatologist. Anyways, he was very fascinating. But is theologist really? He made it a thing. . Traumatologist. Oh my gosh. He made enough money to be called to call himself that Statistically you will find out like how we have this chronic stress has, and they've created, like you said, these subcategories.

So there's frenetic, which is what somebody used that word the other day and it had just popped up and I was like, that's not a word that's used. I love, 

[00:12:52] Jess: I use frenetic a lot, like frenetic energy. Right. Okay. So explain that phonetic for me is, it's just like the fast moving, like my kids being frenetic.

That's a fast paced, That's what I was think. Fast moving, constant, constantly, and it's kind of dizzying and a little anxiety. It's not like a fun fast pace. Right? Yeah. So frenetic burnout is, um, when people are like, like channeling so much energy into their. That anxiety pace, what ends up happening is that the rewards of the role is not even 

[00:13:22] Randi: right.

There's no balance. You have no work live balance. 

[00:13:26] Jess: She's, she's sitting here like, I'm giving, I'm doing air scale signs, like the scales and she's, you know, interpreting for me today, . So yes, there's no balance and you just keep putting in and in and it just feels crazy and 

[00:13:37] Randi: you're not getting any reward back for it like you think you are at first, cuz you're kind of thriving off of that, like chasing that.

But then you're like, 

[00:13:45] Jess: Is doing the same thing over and over again with no real 

[00:13:48] Randi: reward. Okay. And then there's under challenge, if you 

[00:13:52] Jess: made me do the same thing over and over and over again. Mm-hmm. , I a, would be under challenged. Right. And I would be so burnt out looking at like, I don't know how people. Do math, like my husband and I don't how people do numbers all day long.

Mm-hmm. , because I could do it, but I don't find joy in it. Right. So I would be burnt out doing the same thing over and over because Very monotonous. Yeah. I don't find 

[00:14:18] Randi: satisfaction in that. Or there's nowhere, there's some might find it like there's no ability to like move up within their workplace or like there's no.

Challenged there, like they're not learning anything. They can't move forward. You feel stuck maybe like in a position or you're not getting any, like you said, joy or satisfaction Yeah. Out of the work that you're doing. Yeah. I 

[00:14:37] Jess: had a job year in, in college. Right. And they would give these like personality tests mm-hmm.

before they hired 

[00:14:44] Randi: you. Oh yeah. A lot of places do that stuff and do Okay. 

[00:14:47] Jess: So, and they would even, they wouldn't hire you unless you were a certain. You know, role. Mm-hmm. , because it'll tell you what this person is good at, not good at. And one of the things was mine was that I needed different challenges.

Yeah. And that I will get bored doing the same thing over and over and over again. Yeah. 

[00:15:05] Randi: And that's really good from a psychological side too. And because I have like my own staff, I have looked at. Actually into that, some of that software and stuff because now they have so many ways to test people to see if they're gonna be good for a very like specific type of, um, position.

Because a lot of companies waste a lot of money hiring and training like the wrong people. And then you don't have the job satisfaction either cuz like you've taken a job on that you think you might enjoy or you're good at, but then you find out you're. But 

[00:15:34] Jess: that's the under challenged burnout because a lot of us just like, you know, Randy's the same way, is that she really needs to be able to think outside the box.

Yeah. She needs to do different stuff. If we made her do the same thing over and over and over again, she would probably, she would 

[00:15:50] Randi: burn out. No, I'm constantly, For me, joy is constantly learning and challenging myself. Mm-hmm. and, and finding like the best learning how to do it. And so I need those challenges to move forward and grow where like some other people may.

It just depends. You have to find kind of like what works for you so you don't get burn out, but you can also just be plain out, worn out. That's another subtype of playing 

[00:16:12] Jess: out. Worn out, worn out, play out, worn out. Like an old rug. Right? I was thinking like an old record or something. Plain 

[00:16:18] Randi: out, worn out over and over again, or like all scratched up.

So we're dating ourselves talking about 

[00:16:24] Jess: what is, uh, what, so what is worn out burnout. 

[00:16:28] Randi: Um, so that is usually like, you've been kind of like working in like a high stress situation, intense stress, and same thing, like very, very minimal rewards with it. And it's just been like ongoing, like over and over again, and you're just, Okay.

So 

[00:16:45] Jess: does plain out, worn out? Yeah. I mean, that's a great way to describe 

[00:16:48] Randi: it. Seem like you're at the end of your rope. Like with it, like you're like, I've done. 

[00:16:52] Jess: Oh, that's what I say. I'm toast. I'm toast. I'm toast. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what that means, but Burnt toast. I'm, I'm burnt toast. It means 

[00:16:58] Randi: like, you know, burnt toast, burn.

Same thing. Burn out. It all comes in. It's all very sick. Scrape 

[00:17:02] Jess: me off and try to save me. Dont, but really I don't. There 

[00:17:05] Randi: toast. People are saving it. Toast? Not me. No. 

[00:17:09] Jess: There's continuous stressors when we are looking at this. There's certain jobs, especially over the last couple of years that we've seen that have had a higher burnout, right?

Yes. And our job is one of the ones that has been very high burnout. Really high burnout. So we kind of divided it up and talked about a few things. The continuous stressors in all jobs is really like the emotional and physically wearing down of somebody without the rewards. Mm-hmm. and it just means just too much.

[00:17:40] Randi: Yeah. And that's why, you know, we are a very. Reward based society. And that works for a lot of people, especially. It works great with ADHD kids and myself too. Oh yeah. Um, I'm very reward based and I found that because that's the way, like my brain works, like without consequences and without rewards. I mean that, that's kind of like a free for all.

Like, I mean, why I have no direction. So it's like this is . 

[00:18:07] Jess: Well, it's true. So yeah. I'll just leave 

[00:18:10] Randi: that one there. Okay. Okay. Okay. But I'm saying like, so like a lot of studies have shown that like kids have adhd, if they don't have a reward to work towards, or like a consequence, like they're just gonna squirrel out all over the place.

Mm-hmm. and it's gonna actually be worse for them. And in this, with. Knowing how like I staff and stuff too, there are so many programs out there too for like how to reward your employees, how to make them feel valued, how to make them feel wanted. All these things come into play and so we are very reward based and that's why it is important to, you know, even like recognize these things that are burning you out and make sure you are being fulfilled, you are being valued.

Or if you know your job's not doing it, finding a way to fi to do those things for yourself. 

[00:18:55] Jess: And the two week vacation a year and the once a year bonus, maybe that is not enough for most people. I mean, we get a paycheck, that's great. That's why we go to 

[00:19:04] Randi: work, right? That's a reward. But sometimes it's not 

[00:19:07] Jess: enough, right?

And so it's the other things and learning what, what you need or learning what your employees need really is it. Yeah. Like some people love it when you bring donuts to the office. They're like, Woohoo. Donut 

[00:19:18] Randi: Friday. Yeah. Other people need, you know, your time, your words, you know, they, So that's the same thing, like when we, we talked about love language kind of in the past.

Mm-hmm. , you, you need to find that with like your coworkers, your friends, your employees, like what you do and your own life too. Like what you need and. Even understanding your own love language for yourself, for self care and stuff. So you can fill your cup up or you can tell your employer like, I need this.

I need feedback. Or like, I need a ticket to the baseball game. Like, you know what I mean? And so you can communicate that. I, I wanna touch on the way we are in our society. Like in the United States, we perpetuate burnout. Like we are not like other countries. Busy. Busy. Yeah. Other countries give much more vacation time.

Yep. They have much more downtime for rest. We do not as a whole. Here in our society, you know, push that rest is good, that taking breaks is good. That taking time with your family is good. Yeah. We push the busy, We barely hustle. Keep going. We 

[00:20:20] Jess: barely let people even like take off maternity leave. 

[00:20:23] Randi: No. And we've had to push for that.

And 

[00:20:26] Jess: paternity leave, I mean, any of that stuff, it's stupid. What does it look like when physicians and doctors, um, or anybody, they get burnt out? What are some of the, like the warning signs that you are getting burnt out? 

[00:20:40] Randi: Yeah, so anybody that's in like a high stress, uh, job is gonna be, you know, more susceptible to this with like, fatigue, lack.

Of sleep, which can then move you into more anxiety and you can become very desensitized in a way to things, um, dissociative in a way, you know, where it's just like then that like is affecting your work because it's like everybody's a number, everybody's the same face, so 

[00:21:07] Jess: it's like disconnecting. Yeah.

It's, it's a way of like disconnecting and so it. Not personal, right? Yeah. It doesn't feel personal. It's disconnected. Yeah. Um, the other one is people having low morale. Mm-hmm. feeling really low, um, not maybe accomplishing 

[00:21:23] Randi: anything. Yeah. So their self-esteem starts dwindling. And this is why I say it's very, very important to be self-aware of this, especially if you are in.

Uh, medical field or like health field or like us, like mental health because this is why so many people get misdiagnosed. Mm-hmm. and or see like a bad doctor or like see like a bad therapist or whatever it is because like they're burnt out and they're not recognizing it within themselves. And um, so that's why when you are in a position of like this caliber, like you need to make sure like you're taking care of yourself.

Same thing with like motherhood and giving and giving. You cannot, We talked about this. You cannot pour from an empty. 

[00:22:05] Jess: It's making more mistakes. Mm-hmm. , what you're talking about is making mistakes or really just, you know, 

[00:22:12] Randi: Yeah. So judging overall, like work is suffering because you're making mistakes and it's like, that's how, like medical errors and stuff happen and people can die on an operating table because like, you know, if a doctor's been working, you know, 20 hours Yeah.

Or 48 hours straight and they're so burnt out and you know, they write the wrong medication for somebody, I mean, We're human. Those things happen sadly, but it can be so detrimental. 

[00:22:38] Jess: Well, and you hear these nurses that are like, I pulled a 16 hour shift, or you hear policemen right, and we're very with, they pull a 16 hour shift.

I don't think I know I would suck after 16 hours of therapy. I know by our 11, I would feel bad for whoever that person is. I, I have a hard time that we actually expect some of these positions to, to work that long and to sustain 

[00:23:05] Randi: that. Right. And then that's why the divorce rate is so high. Yes. Because of those things.

And I was in a relationship with somebody that was in law enforcement and it was detrimental to our relationship. It was like, because of that, because you just work and you work and you work and like, You put everything else last. Yeah. And you get called out and you're put in, you know, traumatic situations and like how can you not bring that home, you know?

And if you don't take care of 

[00:23:31] Jess: yourself Right. You have a day to take you. They work four days on and then there's a day off. Mm-hmm. that first day off is usually sleeping. Yeah. Or drinking. I mean, depends on which one they're doing usually. Right. Well, so it's just hard that we have these jobs that we expect these people to, to not do this.

To not get care, 

[00:23:50] Randi: Yeah. To not take care of their mental health and their wellbeing and their physical. We just like are just like, shove it down, keep moving forward. Yeah. 

[00:23:59] Jess: I mean, it's hard cuz I mean, how are they not burnt? Signs of burnout in us. I mean, the first time I know that I'm being burnt out is when, you know, I'm not caring as 

[00:24:10] Randi: much.

Yeah, right. So they call that compassion fatigue, where it's like you just don't, And I see this, can see this sometimes in myself too, like with um, you know, having a special needs son and stuff, and I'm just like, , Oh my God, I can't handle this. Like one more day. I'm just like, my empathy is starting to like dwindle, you know, like my compassion for like what he's going through.

And I'm like, Okay, I need to take a step back. I need to, you know, do some self care. I need to spend some time with myself because you can kind of see those things happening. Oh, I 

[00:24:41] Jess: had something this week at a conversation about self care and self soothing. Hmm. And that self care. Is taking care of the future self, whereas self soothing is taking is is really just kind of putting the bandaid on.

[00:24:59] Randi: Yeah, and I, we talked about that too in our, a little bit. We touched on that in our self care episode about episode nine, by the way. Yeah. About, um, self soothing in a positive way. In a negative way. Like don't go out and buy. $10,000 Buren bag, you know, if to self soThe in the moment, and then you're like, Shit, I gotta make my house payment.

You know, like, just kidding. Nobody does that. But I mean, I'm sure people do it, but I would never, I know they do 

[00:25:23] Jess: it, but it's, 

[00:25:23] Randi: it's not us. But like, you know, things like this can lead then into secondary traumatic stress, which is also labeled as sts. And so what does that look like? 

[00:25:35] Jess: STS is we are triggered by their trauma.

Right? Like if I 

[00:25:40] Randi: walk away, we almost take it on. 

[00:25:42] Jess: Yeah. Like I'm traumatized by my client's trauma. Right. And the thing is, is. I'm, I'm trained for that. Mm-hmm. , Right. I am trained on how to protect myself and how to not hold that. And I have clients that are like, Can you hold this for me? And I'm like, Of course I can.

Cuz I'm trained in that. 

[00:26:01] Randi: But it's taken many, many, many years. Yes. And not, All people have the capability to do this. But that is why, like me as a clinician, I am also very intentional and specific with the clients that I take. Mm-hmm. , because I, that's why I don't see children, because I know I could not carry that trauma for them.

because it touches me too personally as a mother, and so that's me being, People are like, Please see, you know, my child. I'm being professionally responsible. Mm-hmm. to myself and my other clients and the world as a whole saying no to that as my boundary because I would carry that and it would. My own trauma for me, cuz I would not be able to hold that, um, in a healthy way.

[00:26:49] Jess: Right. And you know, the, the secondary traumatic stress that happens in a lot of fields, right? Mm-hmm. , we talked, I mean it can happen in any of the 

[00:26:57] Randi: care you said like firefighting, like Yeah. Law enforcement. Like any type of selfless 

[00:27:02] Jess: serving. And that's how some people, if we go back to our dsm, right? What we used to diagnose people, acute stress disorder, right?

That one. You know, we can't get it from say, watching the news unless it's part of our job. Right? Yeah. If we're police officers who have to do that and then we're like watching this stuff over and over and over, right, Then it can, Yeah. But for, you know, because it's related to your 

[00:27:27] Randi: job. When I started doing this full time, I had to cut out things like that, like the news and like a lot of media and stuff because I couldn't handle the weight of the world.

Mm-hmm. with the weight of what my clients were asking me to hold for them too. And I was like, I only had so much space for that. And so it's like becoming self-aware of the space that you can hold and what you can hold and. You need to do to be able to move towards those areas without letting yourself become burnt out.

And this is why so many people change careers mid midlife. Right? Right. Or leave these areas like the medical field, the mental health field, the teaching field. Let's talk about all the burnt out teachers the last few years that should be making a million bazillion dollars but aren't, um, you know, it, it leads to that because you don't, if you, especially if you don't have.

[00:28:20] Jess: Right. Especially, I mean, again, the last couple of years, these fields, right? Mm-hmm. , so like teachers, teacher, teacher support, teacher burnout, looks, you know, it's the emotional exhaustion, right? The physical, the mental exhaustion. Mm-hmm. , right? Like, I could never be, well, a teacher, but b, I could never be a kindergarten teacher.

The energy required for that alone. Is just 

[00:28:42] Randi: way much. Yeah, and it's like as a therapist, it's hard. I can see like some of my teachers and my kids' teachers and stuff when they're like so burnt out and they're maxed out and they're just like at the end and I'm like, Why are you doing this to yourself? I actually started out.

Um, wanting to become a teacher and, you know, teaching and I started seeing like the red flags of it for me, that I would not be able to teach the way I wanted to. Like there was all this like red tape and like administrative stuff and I was like, This is not gonna, this is gonna break my heart, like being in this position.

So luckily I had the wherewithal to see like, this wasn't the career path I needed to take. My daughter really wants to be a teacher and so it's hard for me , cause I'm like, your guys are so underpaid and underappreciated. But um, yeah, it's high burnout with that. So it's like you need to learn how to take care of yourself.

[00:29:37] Jess: Well, one of the reasons things that causes is having a poor work life balance. Right? Right. And and what I explain to people is that balance is not these scales that are 50 50, right? 

[00:29:48] Randi: No, they're not. I think we think of that. We visualize it. Yeah. That's what we teach people like. 50% here, 50% there, like 30% here, and like 10% here.

And it's like, no, that's not what it looks 

like. 

[00:30:00] Jess: Balance when you're looking at your life is more like walking on a tight rope. Mm-hmm. . Right. You see them crossing the Grand Canyon and they've got this, this, you know, gravity bar that they're holding onto. Right. And what that really is, is that's to help them balance mm-hmm.

Cause if some wind comes, they can push it the other way to kinda help 'em. Right. Typically it isn't exactly 50 50. It, it's kind of giving and taking where your life needs it. And that's the balance. And so sometimes you just have to make sure you keep track of that. 

[00:30:31] Randi: Right. And I, I think a lot of this too comes into play with some of the things we talked about in the past too, about, especially like women, I feel a lot of time can be more burnt out in their profession.

And because we are taught to just suck it up. Mm-hmm. , push it down, move through it. There's no crying in baseball, whatever. You know, euphemisms, I can't say that you want to throw at it, that we're like, Why are we deserving of this? Why are we allowing ourselves to be treated this way? Like in our profession or in our life?

Like if you're not happy with a job, like why are you not communicating like your needs? Or why are you not looking for something else? Like what is holding you back from believing that you deserve more? 

[00:31:18] Jess: Yeah. And what is, I mean, and sometimes I think you talk about women is that we're trying to do everything.

We're running a house, we're running our jobs. Wow. We're, we're taking on all of this and trying to figure out how to fold laundry and how to do some of these things that I would call simple tasks that 

[00:31:38] Randi: aren't so simple. Right. It's like one more thing on your 

[00:31:41] Jess: plate. Right. And sometimes when I can teach women, It's okay to have a bowl of cereal for dinner tonight.

Mm-hmm. , it's okay to have breakfast if that's what you guys are having, right? Yeah. It's 

[00:31:51] Randi: okay to have ice cream for breakfast. Well, I, 

[00:31:53] Jess: I, I don't know if I'm gonna tell you that one, but if you want, that's great. But, but part of this is that we put so much emphasis that, you know, like when people. With breastfeeding for babies, right?

Mm-hmm. , really, we want a fed child, 

[00:32:07] Randi: right? And I think that that leads to a lot of postpartum, you know, issues too, because we feel like we need to be fitting into like this role, mm-hmm. or like these rules that society has, you know, like breast is best, like blah, blah. And it's like, no, a baby and fed a fa baby, a fed healthy baby baby.

And. Sane and healthy is best, 

[00:32:29] Jess: right? And you have so many women who are like, I, you know, I can't breastfeed or I'm having issues and there's 

[00:32:35] Randi: so much shame. Oh, I carried so much guilt and so much shame for that. Cuz I thought, oh, like my mom was a great breast feeder. I was breastfed, my kids are only gonna be breastfed.

And then I couldn't produce, you know, because of health issues I had. And I was like, I'm a failure my whole being as a woman. I have nothing left. Like that's the way I felt. You know, I was 25 when I had my first child too, so I was younger and it was like, it just felt like my whole world was falling apart and all my value was just gone.

And it's like, that's not true. Do you hear me? That's not fucking true. No. 

[00:33:09] Jess: All we want is a fed child, right? Yeah. And so that's why when I can teach women to, to do what they can, And give where they can give. And going back to that balance, right, and keeping that balance mm-hmm. that sometimes it, it is not exactly 50 50.

Okay? So, causes a burnout. We already said a heavy workload, having a poor, you know, work life 

[00:33:31] Randi: balance, not being rewarded, feeling unsupported, whether that's in the home or in your work environment. Being discriminated against. Um, there's a lot of unfairness, especially towards women and especially towards women of color, let's be honest.

Mm-hmm. like one is women. We all make less and we're seen as less usually in a work environment. And then on top of it, if you're a woman of color, I apologize for our population as a whole, but you often do not get paid as much either. Mm-hmm. and are very misrepresented. Mm-hmm. . And so you have even more of a.

On top of that, and it is horrible, but this is the reality that we're dealing with. So how can we make this better for ourselves? 

[00:34:16] Jess: Right? Cuz what you're talking about is working in an environment that doesn't support 

[00:34:20] Randi: you, doesn't have your values, doesn't have your best interest at heart. or 

[00:34:25] Jess: you know, working in a job where you're like, What the hell am I here for?

Mm-hmm. . Right. You know, I heard a lot of doctors during the pandemic that were saying things like, Why are we even doing all of this? Right. Right. I mean, they had, I think there was an ER doctor in the very beginning who committed suicide. She just couldn't take it. Oh, yeah. Couldn't take it. Mm-hmm. , and I think physicians have one of the.

Higher rates of suicide in, in a job, which is horrible, burnt out. You're not taking care of yourself. This is what's gonna happen. Yeah. There really isn't a set treatment for burnout. There isn't like a, we can give you a pill and take two days off burnout kind of pill. 

[00:35:04] Randi: No. You have to find all these different things we've talked.

Taking all these pieces of the pie and putting them together can help with your overall burnout. So it is like, listen to episode six about boundaries. Listen to episode nine about self care. Like take these pieces of the puzzle into consideration as a whole and utilize these things to combat ending up as that candle burnt.

In the puddle. So what I'm 

[00:35:33] Jess: hearing you say is that this is a process. Yes. It's a process. It is a process. So it is part of adding that puzzle together, 

[00:35:40] Randi: right? It's becoming more self aware, taking more care of yourself, uh, with self care, however, that looks for you. Taking breaks, like what you were talking about, Self soothing.

Self 

[00:35:53] Jess: soothing, which is, you know, Getting my massage, right? Yeah. I'm burnt. I need a massage so I can zone out. It's taking the breaks, being realistic about what you can and can't do. Like we were talking about with this opportunity job I had that I was like, I, the real, the reality is I can't do the extracurriculars.

Yeah. Something had to give. Right. And that was it. And guess what? I made it to the end of my project. It's great and now I can go back out and play. Yeah. 

[00:36:23] Randi: But now you also know that you would never take that on again. Absolutely. 

[00:36:27] Jess: But it was total burn you out. Cause it would burn me out to do full time.

Mm-hmm. . Right. I knew I could do it for a limited time, but I would never want to do this 

[00:36:35] Randi: full time. Yeah. So having that conversation with yourself about what is realistic, what are my expectations, what can I really achieve here are so very 

[00:36:45] Jess: important. And then also knowing if you're going to. What are you gonna put in place to make sure you are taking care of yourself?

Mm-hmm. , Because sometimes we're like, you know, I gotta just do it. There's no choice. I I have to get through this moment. Yeah. 

[00:36:59] Randi: Put it so you gotta, sometimes you gotta schedule stuff out for yourself. Put it on the calendar. That's what I have to do because I will, I will ignore, you know, things to take care of myself.

I will put. On the back burner at the end of the list. Jess and I were just talking about how I do this to myself. . Yeah. I was actually harassing her a little bit. She was, Which is good to have that support with somebody like you're not taking care of yourself. Mm-hmm. like. WTF , 

[00:37:23] Jess: and I was so excited when I got the reminder last Thursday that I had already pre-booked a massage that Friday night and you had forgotten about it.

I didn't have it in my book, and I was so excited. I was like, Oh, hot damn. I have a massage tomorrow night. And I didn't. I forgot I did that. Right. So that, But 

[00:37:41] Randi: you did it knowing, 

[00:37:42] Jess: right. Knowing that I was gonna need it. 

[00:37:44] Randi: You knew that future you was gonna need it. So that's kind of like what we have to do.

We have to be like, Okay, I know like X amount. I'm gonna hit my wall here. Yeah. I need to do this. And then like, you can get so caught up. Like she was, Excuse me, I'm just, She's so excited. Excited. 

[00:37:59] Jess: She's like knocking things over over here. 

[00:38:02] Randi: But she was so caught up in her work these last, you know, few weeks that she had forgotten about taking care of 

[00:38:08] Jess: herself.

Yeah. And I had pre. This in the beginning, knowing that I was going to need it right about here. Mm-hmm. . And again, I was so excited when I got that reminder that I was like, 

[00:38:20] Randi: Okay, this is, and sometimes that can be all you need, so you're not burning out. I 

[00:38:24] Jess: felt great actually, and it was, and it kept me going.

I'm like, I just have one more week and I'm good. It was fantastic. That's awesome. 

[00:38:30] Randi: So, so what are we giving away? 

[00:38:32] Jess: Ooh, ooh, ooh. We are going to be giving a. A small book on how to live your life to the fullest and minimize your stress. 

[00:38:41] Randi: Okay, so just another tool that we can give to you guys in your arsenal.

Pet over to our website, randy and jess podcast.com, and you guys can download a free ebook that we created for you guys living life to the fullest and minimizing your stress. 

[00:38:55] Jess: Have fun with it. Learn how to protect yourself and not be burnt out. Yeah. And how to manage your. Sounds 

[00:39:02] Randi: good. Take care of you guys.

All right. Talk to you later. Bye. 2, 3, 4. Thanks for listening and normalizing mental health with us. 

[00:39:10] Jess: Don't free to check out our free resources and favorites on our website, unapologetically, randy and jess.com. 

[00:39:17] Randi: I can share this episode and tune in next week.