Unmasking Imposter Syndrome: Empower Your Authentic Self

Ep 11 Imposter Syndrome

[00:00:00] Randi: 1, 2, 3, 4. Hi friends. It's Randy and Jess, and we're gonna cut the bullshit and let's get into 

[00:00:08] Jess: women's mental health.

[00:00:13] Randi: In this episode of Randy and Jess, we are talking about, do you feel like a phony? Learning about the five imposter syndromes and how to kick them to the curb. 

[00:00:23] Jess: Five. I didn't 

[00:00:23] Randi: know there were five. No, I mean like we need five ways to feel like inferior. Right? , we're already pretty good at that, so we're gonna delve into imposter syndrome, exploring those five syndromes.

Where it comes from, why it's so toxic, and how not to feel like a phony or you're not measuring up and how not to 

[00:00:45] Jess: pass it on to your kids. We talked about our kids imposter syndrome is especially prevalent in biased, toxic cultures that value individualism and overwork. That is a big sentence. 

[00:00:57] Randi: Yeah, and it's that busy response we were talking about, you know, in previous episodes.

It's totally toxic. An enmeshed system, which means you don't have any boundaries, like with that culture or that family, you know, system. In talking 

[00:01:12] Jess: about culture and family system, uh, system, for this episode, we're gonna lay the foundations of imposter syndrome and go over the five of 'em. And maybe in a future episode we can go more in depth about how it can be the result of, uh, systemic bias and exclusion, especially for women and other, like other 

[00:01:31] Randi: minorities.

Oh yeah, definitely. Like when you have certain, you know, privilege due to your skin color or due to your culture. Even due to like the area, Like the genitals? Yeah, genitals. Like there's a lot, you know, of biases that women deal with. So if you have ever thought or had these feelings, 

[00:01:51] Jess: what am I even doing here?

I 

[00:01:53] Randi: don't belong. I am a 

[00:01:55] Jess: total rod. And sooner or later everyone is going to find out, 

[00:02:00] Randi: do they know I am not smart enough for this? Fake it till you make it. I have no clue what I'm doing. Oh my God, I'm gonna be fired. And I would say as a woman, we tend to be like warriors and like Overthinkers. And so I think it's very easy to fall into imposter syndrome, especially when we do find.

Success or have higher education. Mm-hmm. or are moving up like a corporate ladder, things like that. Or if it's a male dominated industry, it's very easy, I feel, to fall into a pattern of questioning yourself and almost self sabotaging. 

[00:02:37] Jess: It is, and many of us have this like false belief that we are not actually as capable or as smart as others think we are like, I've heard people say, I don't know why they hired me.

I was like, Cuz you gave 'em your resume and you interviewed. 

[00:02:51] Randi: Right, Because you can do the job. Yeah, right. But I mean, I do that to myself all the time. I'm like, I'm not capable of this. And I'm like, Wait, no, I am. You know? But it's like a constant, so you're not alone in that. And having those thoughts, you know, and thinking like, I'm not enough.

I don't measure up. Like why am I doing this? Why did they give me this position? 

[00:03:10] Jess: Imposter syndrome. It's not a diagnosis. 

[00:03:12] Randi: No, no, there's no, It's like a buzzword. Yeah. It's just phenomenon that we talk about like in culture, that we're like holding ourselves up to almost like this unattainable like status and we're like letting ourselves down.

Negative self talk 

[00:03:27] Jess: basically. Right. And it's the all encompassing fear that we are gonna be found out that we don't have what it takes to do whatever it is we're doing. Mm-hmm. again, why did they hire us? Didn't they meet? 

[00:03:39] Randi: That kind of stuff. Yeah, it's just like, kind of like a cluster of symptoms that you can kind of like pinpoint that, just like intensify, you know, when you are stressed out or worried about something and that just kind of like interferes with um, your thought process and your ability to perform at times.

And 

[00:03:58] Jess: you already have the, the feeling that, you know, you're inadequate or you're incompetent, right? Mm-hmm. . And so that's kind of what you end up putting out towards other people, right? Uh, with imposter 

[00:04:08] Randi: syndrome, it's like you're self projecting. Yes. Low self-esteem that day or things, or like trouble at work.

And then it just feels like everything is amplified and like focused on that. It's not really, but like in our heads, Feel sometimes that way. And then like you said, we can also like push that onto other people around us to 

[00:04:28] Jess: make us feel like we are not imposters. Mm-hmm. , we end up working harder. Yes.

Right. You work harder, you work longer, You hold yourself to a higher standard than you would anybody else because you're like, No, no. I have to make sure I do this. Yeah. And, and that pressure takes a toll, Emotional wellbeing. Your performance, mental health, 

[00:04:47] Randi: All of it. Yeah, it does. Physical health. I mean, I did that to myself, like I had to prove this and I kept getting like more and more schooling and like finally my partner was like, No more school Randy

Like we do, You don't need a PhD. You end up countering those feelings like more and more like, I need to work harder. I need to know more. I need to, Okay. No, you're just stressing yourself 

[00:05:08] Jess: out. I have this reoccurring dream. I'm already laughing. Mm-hmm. , I have this reoccurring dream that I have, and generally it happens when I'm stressed.

Maybe I do feel like I have imposter syndrome at work or something. Mm-hmm. . The dream is I'm back in college and it's not my college, it's some other college and they're telling me to do all this work, and I'm like, No, no, no. I have a master. I have a master's. No, really? I have a master's and I'm going, Why don't you believe me?

Yes. And that's it. I'm like, I don't have to do this. No. Wait. Why am I doing this? Right. I have it. It's this reoccurring dream. I mean, I haven't had it in a while, thankfully. Yeah. But that's generally what I'm stressed or there's changes that I feel like I have to prove myself. Mm-hmm. . And so it comes out as a dream like that.

[00:05:49] Randi: And I feel it is just way more intense for women too, because it's still hard. Culturally, I feel for like women to be like breadwinners or women to be like the heads of household. Mm-hmm. or to make more money or to kind of quote unquote, like have it all is what, like people would say. And it can feel like a lot of pressure and that maybe we can't measure up to our male counterparts or you know, somebody that's paved the way before us.

And it's like, we're not meant to, like we're on our own journey. But it can feel tick for ta. I have 

[00:06:21] Jess: clients who use this all the time. I have imposter syndrome. Right. Yeah. And in looking it up, it was like, okay, so where does this come from? Right. It didn't just pop up five years ago. Right, Right. This is stuff that, that comes from like way back in childhood.

Mm-hmm. growing up in families that place a huge emphasis on achievement. You know, go be a. Right. Be a lawyer. 

[00:06:42] Randi: Isn't that what your success is defined by Only like a monetary or like degree that you have. Or like title. A title behind your name. And that is very true, like in a lot of families or cultures.

Also, I have seen like a trend too, even like on TikTok with a lot of kids talking about how they were like a gifted child. Mm. And so they like go, go, go. They're like so gifted, so can do all this stuff. Gifted. Yeah. And like now they can. Function. They burnt out from that cuz of like all the pressure and it's like now they can't achieve as much because they just.

There's like nothing left to give or they just have been like so rewarded and like now doing things on your own. Like you're not, like, you're not the gifted, everybody's gifted, you know, like when you're an adult, cuz everybody has better qualities. Like you can't be it all. And I think like when you realize that after you've just been like praised and praised and praised and praised and praised and you're like, Wait, 

[00:07:41] Jess: well that's like everybody getting a trophy.

Everybody got a trophy. Um, not my daughter's team, but my son's. This is, you know, five, 10 years, whatever could go. Mm-hmm. , everybody got a participation trophy. It was almost like they, they get too praised and then you have the parents that at the same time also do all the criticism. So it's this mixed message thing that says the best.

but you should have done better. 

[00:08:06] Randi: And so it's like this pressure to like achieve like over and over again. Listen, I had a 4.2 GPA in high school. Do you think that means shit? No. It just mean they gave me some extra points cuz I sat in a different class. It didn't prepare me. It doesn't level the playing field.

Mm-hmm. like there's gonna be, depending on like where you go in life, whether you're a restaurant manager or if you're a ceo, like. There's gonna be different competitions on in different situations you're put in that nothing can prepare you for. Yeah. Except like who you are, like as a person. And if we 

[00:08:42] Jess: go back to our kids, this comes from them being confused between approval and love and worthiness.

Mm-hmm. , right? Cause what you're saying. That is not approval or love or worthiness. No. Right. You are worthy just because you are you, right? Not because you do anything. 

[00:09:00] Randi: So there's a attachment there. It's like you need to have met this goal or this need of like a family member or like a teacher or something, and then you feel worthy and it's like that's not how life should.

[00:09:14] Jess: Right. You're not worthy because you did this. Mm-hmm. , you're worthy because of 

[00:09:17] Randi: who you are. Right. And then we think like, when we're in like a different position or like work and like, we're not getting this constant, you know, praise when I make it to here. Right. When I make it to here, everything's gonna be okay.

When I do this, everything's gonna go this way. Mm-hmm. , when I, No, that's not, We're not following the yellow brick road. There's no rainbow at the end. If 

[00:09:39] Jess: y'all haven't seen it yet, this is gonna be a spoiler. Mm-hmm. . But you know, there was no magic at the end of the Yellow Road Road. 

[00:09:45] Randi: No. It was like some old man pulling the strings behind the curtain.

That sounds creepy. We think that our worth is based off of somebody praising us or getting an award or making more money, or, and it's not, that's not who you are as a person. That is not your self-worth. 

[00:10:03] Jess: And that leads to things like perfectionist tendencies, right? Mm-hmm. , we have to be perfect or having low in ourselves or our behavior and being able to manage responsibilities.

I mean, Think about it, we're gonna go generations here. Boomers didn't really set us x X gens up for anything, right? Oh no. Yeah. They were like, Here you go. Go to college. Everything's great. Right? Right. So we did the same to millennials. Here you go. Go to college. Well, guess what? There were no jobs, right.

And then it's like all of a sudden now we have these helicopter parents. Mm-hmm. , who are not allowing their children to do anything and they're calling their college professors. 

[00:10:38] Randi: Right. And it's like, Mm. Like I keep telling my daughter, you're like, you're on your own. Like when you're done, like the other day she was supposed to get her tires changed and we're like, Here you go.

Give them your name and then let us know when it's done. We'll call and pay for it. And she's like sitting in her car, petrified, I don't know. Do you need to meet me there? And I'm like, Give them your name, . I was like, Walk through the door. I was 

[00:11:03] Jess: like, Oh, give them your keys. Yeah, tell 'em why you are at the tire shop.

I 

[00:11:07] Randi: was like, o m gee, no, you on your own girl. You need to learn. It's kind of like sink or swim. I'm like, you're gonna learn a lot of hard life lessons and that's gonna help shape you. But 

[00:11:19] Jess: I don't know if we necessarily set 'em up to be successful. Like the other day, I probably not My daughter, I said, Call them and let 'em know we're gonna be late because for whatever, Oh, was in my husband's car, my phone wasn't connected.

Mm-hmm. . And I said, Call them. And she was like, How do I do that? I was like, Look him up. Hit the button. Mm-hmm. . And then they answer it. She's like, What do I do? What do I do? And hands me a phone while I'm driving. And I was like, Oh my God. Put it on a speaker and let me tell 'em he's, they're gonna be late.

I'm like, You obviously need to, you know, call the pizza place next time because, We do everything 

[00:11:48] Randi: online now. No, I, yeah, and I have had to force my daughter into that situation too, cuz she had really bad anxiety. And I understand that because I did too. I had to be like, you have to learn. She would not give people order.

Like when we were at like the restaurant, she'd be like, Tell me and then have me tell them. And I was like, No. And her dad and I were like, No. Like we had to refuse cuz we're like, you're gonna have to learn. To be in uncomfortable situations and we're not always gonna be there for you because both of our parents died younger.

You know, I have a very different kind of outlook that like you could be on your own, you know? Unfortunately Tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow. So it's like I have to prepare you mm-hmm. to deal with this shit right now. 

[00:12:28] Jess: Yeah. My, uh, our oldest used to, his mom would call him life lessons. He's like, I hate life lessons

And I'm like, I know. Go inside and tell 'em how much gas you want. Yeah. Go ask and tell him what pump it is. Mm-hmm. , how do I know that? Let's do this. Yeah. 

[00:12:42] Randi: Like let's walk through it. And it's like we've lost a lot of like ability to communicate, like clearly in that way. Texting in general, just putting them in situations where they have to learn, kind of like how to manage that and, and walk through.

Life lessons. 

[00:12:57] Jess: Life lessons. Life hack. Yeah. Life hack. 

[00:12:59] Randi: Exactly. Yeah. No, it is tips and tricks. That's what you guys like to talk, they call it on TikTok, while you're a tip and trick. Some of those are really cool though. I'm like, Yeah, they are. I'm like, I, How did I go my whole life? Not knowing that, Right? 

[00:13:10] Jess: I'm always surprised at how common it is when people talk about imposter syndrome, right?

Mm-hmm. . And you know, so I started looking and in 25 to 30% of high achievers suffer from imposter 

[00:13:21] Randi: syndrome. Yeah. So we all think we're a fraud. So you're not alone in that like, Right. No. And it's so true because like I know so many therapists and stuff, and even in that, because we feel like. We're caring for people's minds and like their emotions and that can be like very heavy to carry.

And sometimes you're like questioning like, am I doing the right thing for my client? Am I doing, am I making sure like they're protected? It can cause a lot of burnout and it can cause a lot of imposter syndrome cuz you're like, I'm the type of therapist. I do not have the capability to guide you in this.

I'm gonna find you somebody that can mm-hmm. , but sometimes some therapists don't. But then a good therapist will find the resources that you need and learn alongside with you too. Like if that's the case, um, you know, and kind of like adapt and things like that. Everybody questions what they're doing. And in talking 

[00:14:13] Jess: about therapists, it's really funny cuz most of us, uh, I'm telehealth now.

Mm-hmm. , but you know, for the first half of my career I was always in an office with other therapists. Right. And my last office, it was always, you know, there were some people had side Right. Some people had PhDs. Mm-hmm. , we had an md mm-hmm. . Right. We had a couple of just, I say just who had their masters.

When you are a high achiever amongst other high achievers, you forget that you have achieved this mm-hmm. , and you're like, Oh man, their, their degree is higher than mine. Right. They must know more than me. Or, Oh, I, you know, And so it's easy to have 

[00:14:52] Randi: that. Comparing like across the board, like, Well, you went to school here and like, your program was different than me.

Or like anything, any type of training like that. Like, Oh, you got, you know, your AA from here and I got it from here. I had this professor and you had this. It's like, Oh God, we could compare all freaking day long. It's what you do with what you have, Right? You know, that matters. 

[00:15:14] Jess: But 70% of adults. Can experience this at one time in their life.

I mean mm-hmm. , 70%, that is a lot 

[00:15:21] Randi: of us. That's huge. People questioning like their worth and, and what they've achieved 

[00:15:27] Jess: and stuff. And what we talked in the beginning, it talked about how it's more common among minorities. Mm-hmm. , which I wanna delve into in a different podcast. Mm-hmm. about, you know, women.

I thought it was just women, but it's not just 

[00:15:41] Randi: women. Yeah. Yeah. So it's Asian Americans are more likely. More likely to experience imposter syndrome than African Americans or Latino Americans. And it's, um, more strongly predicted too in those that have mental health, you know, issues as well. It's easier to second guess yourself.

[00:16:02] Jess: Yeah. Like anxiety or anything like 

[00:16:04] Randi: that. Yeah. Because then it's like 

[00:16:05] Jess: amplified. Well, and I think the reason we think that it's mostly women is because it was first kind of documented back in the seventies with high achieving women. Mm-hmm. , 

[00:16:15] Randi: right? Well, and it was new. I feel too, I'm very spotlighted for women to be like So high achieving.

High achieving like in the seventies was kind of like when they broke through. Yes. And I think 

[00:16:24] Jess: they were always high achieving, but they're finally allowed. To be high achieving. 

[00:16:28] Randi: Right. And like, um, they were like talked about like in news and, you know, in media and stuff like that, where before it was like very like hush hush if you were like high achieving or you were like, kind of like hidden behind like the male figureheads and stuff like that.

And so I think it's just like brought about like more awareness, like about it. 

[00:16:46] Jess: I didn't know there was five imposter syndromes. I was like five. Okay. So I kind of, I'm like, Which one are you? Does everybody out there when you're listening, I kind of wanna know which one 

[00:16:56] Randi: are you? Yeah. Which one do you guys think you are as, as you hear us list them off.

So there's the perfectionist. So you set excessively high goals for yourself. And when you fail to reach a goal, you can experience like major self doubt and worry about if you're measuring up and whether you kinda like realize it or not, you can kind of be a control freak and they feel like if they want something done right.

That you have to do it yourself. And I probably definitely fall into that category. . 

[00:17:25] Jess: Oh, I was like, um, check, check. Um, there's the natural genius. They believe they're just naturally smart. Mm-hmm. and everything is easy and they can do it fast. And so when it takes them a long time to, or longer than they feel it should, to master something, they feel ashamed, right?

Mm-hmm. like, I should have got this the first time. Why did it take me so long? That, right? Like 

[00:17:47] Randi: I, this is normally so easy for me and like now it's not. And like then you go in a shame cycle. Yeah. Um, there's the rugged individualist or what is also called a soloist. So that would be if you suffer through asking for help, like you will not ask for help.

Mm-hmm. , this is also a little bit of me, and you feel like if you ask for help, like you're a fraud, you're a phony. Like people think you won't have it together. Um, It's okay to be independent, but not to the extent where you refuse help or you're like blocking people from helping you or caring for you so you can like prove that you're worth or that you're better.

Then like then that turns into like an unhealthy point. The 

[00:18:32] Jess: expert, their competence is based upon how much and what they know. These are the ones that are always learning and they believe they'll never know enough. And if they, they fear that, like those are the ones that also, It's kind of all mixed together.

Right, Right. But they can't say, I don't know. Right. And that's pretty powerful if you can say, I don't have the answer for 

[00:18:52] Randi: that. . Yeah. And I think people really appreciate that. When you say, I don't know. Mm-hmm. , or like, let me find out. Yeah. Or let me do some more research on that. Like let's pause and think about this deeper.

You don't have to have all the answers at your fingertips. Like nobody expects that, but sometimes we put that expectation on ourselves, especially if you fall into this, um, category. 

[00:19:16] Jess: Yeah. And then the last one 

[00:19:18] Randi: is the superhero. Woohoo. And so this can come about when you feel as though same thing, kind of asking for help.

It's okay 

[00:19:28] Jess: to be independent, but it's when you refuse it, like you can do it. Everything. I think moms have a lot of this. Okay. Yeah. Right. We're looking at this going, um, it's very similar to the soloist. Yeah. But this is like, I can do everything. I'm gonna do 

[00:19:41] Randi: it all. I'm gonna, Okay. Superman, you're carrying everything on your shoulders.

Yes, yes. You're carrying, you're flying out there with all the people in the whole building on your shoulders, but in reality, you're not really superman or a superhero. You're gonna fall to the ground with all that shit weighing down on your shoulders. 

[00:19:56] Jess: Right. And And that's part of what we feel like, Oh, they're gonna find out I can't do 

[00:20:00] Randi: everything.

Yeah. And I can't carry this load and I'm 

[00:20:02] Jess: gonna look weak. Right. Even though I probably took it on thinking I could. Right. And it's 

[00:20:07] Randi: like, it's okay to back out a situations too, if you're finding. Too much mm-hmm. For your mental health, wellbeing, family. Like, it's like I, I know. Boundaries. Boundaries. Yes.

Yes. And it's like, don't be a quitter. And it's like, that's not what this is like about it. No. That's toxic positivity. That is toxic 

[00:20:24] Jess: positivity. I thought it was mostly women. Mm-hmm. Right. Because when I was reading it, I, I only hear women that talk about this. 

[00:20:32] Randi: Right. Well, men aren't gonna admit that.

[00:20:34] Jess: Exactly. Exactly right. They're saying that 75% of executive women report having personally experienced imposter syndrome at one point in their career, especially we're talking executives. Right? Right. And then 85% believe that imposter syndrome is commonly experienced by most women. I mean, they just, That's a huge 

[00:20:55] Randi: number.

Yeah. I mean, so when you feel alone in this, we're saying you are not alone, girl. No, 

[00:21:01] Jess: you're not alone. And then it went on to say that 74% of executive women believe that their male counterparts do not experience these feelings of self doubt. 

[00:21:13] Randi: Same thing again when we were talking about, uh, women saying, I'm sorry too much and how men don't say it as much.

We just tend to take on a lot onto our shoulders and believe we're the weaker link because that's what society has portrayed, portrayed, portrayed us, which made, um, and we're not, we are the strongest link. We're the foundation. You're like, we, we are the 

[00:21:38] Jess: foundation. . But the truth really is that there isn't one sex higher than the other.

No. That has a higher level. It's just that women talk about it more. Right. Men feel it too, but because they're expected to, you know, know it and not do it, they don't 

[00:21:56] Randi: say it. Right. And they're not gonna talk about it with their male counteron either, because it's not like the culture like a phony. Right. 

[00:22:03] Jess: I feel like a phony.

No. 

[00:22:04] Randi: It's always like, Dude, you're the best. It's. Bro, bro punch, whatever it is they do, bro. Punch. Um, I'm thinking like wolfs of Wall Street, you know, like, ah, like there, But anyways, so, um, yeah, it's just that we push. Women to prove themselves more like that. You can do it all. You can be, you know, in the workforce, you can have a family, you can do this.

And it's like just layer upon layer. 

[00:22:30] Jess: We used to have, um, a tutoring center, a math tutoring center. Mm-hmm. , my husband and I owned it. And I always, I still joke that I used to hate when I had to use my husband's penis to get my point across. Right. Oh, it's my biggest pet peeve where I could. This sentence, whatever the sentence is, they wouldn't listen to me.

Right. I had to get my husband who says the exact same sentence and they say, Okay, no problem. And I was like, I shouldn't have to use his penis to say what 

I 

[00:23:00] Randi: wanna say. Right. Like, why is it more valid coming from him? Because he has a penis. Right. And I'm grinding my teeth right now. Um, because it's like, it makes me think of like going to the car dealership and stuff.

Oh. And they. Look towards my husband for like the decisions, and I'm like, he tells them, Don't look at me. Look at her. She's the decision maker. She's the one paying for this. He's like, You have to get through her. Yeah. And I'm like, Yeah, you do. And I'm a hard nu to crack, so I was like, Good luck. And just because you looked at him first and going to him first for the, the answers, I'm gonna go 

[00:23:39] Jess: someone else.

I had one go. Oh, and here's, I was the one buying the car with my husband and he's like, Oh, and here, here's the vanity and here's 

[00:23:47] Randi: your mirror. No, that's not what I want. They think we want the color and the No, I wanna know the, see that 

[00:23:51] Jess: there was a mirror with a light so I could look at myself. Yeah. And I.

[00:23:56] Randi: Are you kidding me? No, I wanna know like the rate of the car, how the car performs. What's this? I will go off. What is the safety features? I mean offs. He's like, Oh, they were not ready for her when we came to the car dealership. But it's like irks me too. Like we will go out to eat. I will hand them the car to pay.

They will hand it back to him. They do. I'm like, that's my card. 

[00:24:17] Jess: That is, we're squirreling again. Today's squirrly day. But yeah, so I mean, I guess why are we not talking about what we don't know? Right. Are we afraid that people are gonna find out or that others don't think this way? Right. 

[00:24:30] Randi: Yeah. Or like maybe people are gonna perceive this as weak, but I think like it would be like a relief to talk about it.

Yeah. You are not weak feeling like relief. Even just hearing you talk about like the numbers, because I didn't even like realize they were that high. Mm-hmm. that so many people are feeling that way. Think like, well, they just have their shit all together. That's how they got there. And they're probably like questioning themselves too.

[00:24:52] Jess: They are. Mm-hmm. , because you know why I sit on this side of the room, right. I know that they're questioning themselves. Right? Yeah. It's okay to not be perfect. Nobody is perfect. And we have this weird like struggle where we have to have perfectionism again. Mm-hmm. , I'm gonna say Pinterest did it.

[00:25:09] Randi: Instagram, uh, real life. A Pinterest worthy, you know, picture to pin that we have this perfect, you know, life degree family. It all comes back to you can have imposter syndrome, not just in the workplace mm-hmm. , but like in your marriage and in your, you know, friendships and your relationships that can like bleed out into all sorts of areas like that.

So how do we work through this shit? Talk 

[00:25:36] Jess: to your mentors, right? Mm-hmm. like sometimes, Or find a mentor. Or find a mentor, talk to somebody that you look up to. Mm-hmm. , right? And being honest about it, that 

has 

[00:25:45] Randi: been through it, you know, and like listening to their struggles and stuff. And I mean, that's part of the reason like we wanted to start this podcast too, is because people think like therapists.

Unattainable or like unapproachable, like in a way. And it's like we're not, we're real people, you know? We don't always have our shit together. And it's talking about our struggles, you know, and breaking down those barriers and like the veil what you will so well, and 

[00:26:08] Jess: I laugh, right, because I. If you, I do telehealth, so behind me you see the top shelf that looks like everything's together.

Mm-hmm. , you have my nice painting behind me, right. My little plants. You only see me from the waist stop. Right. Everything looks great. Yes. Meanwhile, I have a pile of paper on my desk. I think I have a roll of shipping thing. Like a shipping tape. Costco, or on the floor. Oh, yeah. Right. The puppy has torn up, like, you know.

Yeah, my, my Soma bra coupon is all over now. And like, you know, the bottom shelf has just been annihilated by the dog. Mm-hmm. . But when you're on with me, I'm very present. Yes. And that's what we're doing. Yeah. Because that 

[00:26:48] Randi: other stuff doesn't matter. I can turn it off. We, we think it does. No, it's you being present.

Mm-hmm. . And in the moment that matters. It's not that there's. Something on the floor next to you. And that's the same thing. We can feel that too with like people coming over to our house like, Oh my God, my house isn't perfect. Like I'm such a fraud. Like they're gonna think like my whole life is apart.

And it's like we all have dirty dishes. We all have laundry. Oh yeah. Some of us are O C D I am not. So it's like you will find more laundry and more dirty dishes in my house than other people and. I used to be like crazy about like cleaning up before people came over. Now I'm like, Whatever it is what it is.

You like me or you don't with my dishes in my sink. 

[00:27:24] Jess: Yeah. And and it's staying focused on your achievements. Right. And what want, 

[00:27:28] Randi: want what for yourself. Yeah. What, what is good for you, And focusing on that instead of outwards and 

[00:27:33] Jess: realist. Stick what is realistic, right? Mm-hmm. , I'm not gonna go run a marathon tomorrow.

I may not even make it if the zombie apocalypse 

[00:27:40] Randi: comes. No ma'am. I will be going down 

[00:27:42] Jess: first , right? I mean, I'll, I'll help protect y'all cuz I'll be down. Right? But, you know, it's realistic. I might be able to go on, like, you know, walk a 5K with you. Mm-hmm. , but I'm not gonna be able to, to run it. Right.

Getting rid of. Perfectionistic 

[00:27:57] Randi: piece. Yeah. So changing your thinking again. Mm-hmm. changing your thought process about it. Kicking the perfectionist thoughts to the curb. Yeah. Talk to a therapist about it. You know, one that is trained in C B T that can work with you on thought patterns that are holding you.

In fear. Yeah. 

[00:28:15] Jess: And really just focus, It's that whole stay in your own lane thing, right? Mm-hmm. , it's focusing on your own achievements. Yeah. And not comparing yourself to other people. Cause Well, 

[00:28:26] Randi: if you, It's like driving, right? So if you're like, in the middle of driving and you, there's all this stuff going on around you and you don't, keeping your eyes on the road in front of you, you're gonna crash.

Mm-hmm. , you know, it's like, Okay. You know, turn your head and look, you know where you need to go, but it's like if you turn your head and you're staring at the, like, at the person next to you, you're gonna crash because your eyes aren't on the road in front of you where your path is leading you. And so, like, think of it like that way.

Mm-hmm. , you know, stay focused on. you. 

[00:28:57] Jess: And the truth is you can't really focus on the person, on the side who's in the, you know, on the side of you because they're supposed to be focusing on them as well. Right? Right. And so you can focus in front of you. You can't do anything about anybody behind you.

Right? And so it is focus on you. 

[00:29:13] Randi: So how can we prevent this from again, kind of bleeding over like into our children and other areas, you know, of our life are for them to like develop it. 

[00:29:22] Jess: So the big, big piece is, is the constant criticism. Mm-hmm. . Right. And I don't just mean that like criticizing them, Right.

But it's criticizing ourselves too. Like 

[00:29:33] Randi: right in front of them. In front of seeing that that's okay. Yeah. 

[00:29:36] Jess: Right. Because I have a friend who told me a story when her daughter, who's now, you know, past college, but she was a itty bitty mm-hmm. . She was doing something like putting makeup on and she was like, Ooh.

And her mom was like, What are you doing? And she's like, I'm being pretty. . And then it dawned on her that she must tell her she's being pretty when she puts on makeup. Mm. Instead of saying, she's just pretty in 

[00:29:58] Randi: general. Right. So she was associating the makeup with being pretty. Right. 

[00:30:03] Jess: And so that's a form of criticism or like when women talk about their weight mm-hmm.

and go, That was a hard one for me to break. Yeah. Right. Oh, I, I'm, I don't look good in this. Well, your kids are hearing it. Mm-hmm. , and they're generally shaped like you. Right. And. 

[00:30:17] Randi: They learn not to love their body because you're not loving 

[00:30:20] Jess: yours. Yeah. And then they're never going to feel like they're good enough.

Mm-hmm. . So it's not just criticizing them, it's criticizing yourself or your spouse or, or what's happening 

[00:30:29] Randi: around. Yeah, and I'm constantly like reiterating to my teenager and stuff like I. Just want you to try things. And I'm not gonna measure you by like the grades. I want you, I wanna know that you put like effort into something.

Yeah. And I said, and for me, like my biggest hope for you is to be happy and whatever it is you do. Yeah. And to find joy in it and you know, find success. Can be measured in so many different 

[00:30:59] Jess: ways. Well, and that's part of it too, is, is praising effort, not the outcome. Right? Like, did you try hard? Great. You gotta B, that's great, great.

You got an A. Did you try hard? And that's what we wanna know, right? Mm-hmm. , what, what is the effort versus, 

[00:31:14] Randi: Yeah. And also a huge thing of it too. I'm gonna squi a little bit, um, picking people that you surround yourself with and also picking a partner. Mm-hmm. , I was listening to a very influential, you know, person talk, and they were saying the big success, the reason that people were so successful in their careers or their life, um, was who they had chose to partner with.

Mm-hmm. and it's so it comes back down to those relationships we have and are they healthy? You know? Yeah. And do they carry you, Support you, support you, push you, pull you in the right ways. In the right directions. And that's why I'm always telling my daughter too now, like in like high school drama and stuff like that, even just with your friendships, is this a good place for you to be with this person?

Are they going to feed into you? Are they dragging you down and learning to assess that? That's a hard one. That is a hard, It's hard. It's hard because we at that age, we're all about like, cool. Yeah. Like, and we want to just go long. We don't wanna be, you know, an outcast. We don't, I've taught my daughter it's okay to be alone.

It's okay to be disliked. 

[00:32:28] Jess: That's a hard one. It's okay. The courage to be disliked. I was just talking about that this morning. Mm. Um, that is, that is a very tough one. 

[00:32:36] Randi: Yeah. And I took that step a few years ago. No, it's very, very hard. So, 

[00:32:41] Jess: but it was good. But it was good. You. The other one too is that we used to do this with my daughter.

Right? We kind of divide things up in our world that, you know, math and English. Mm-hmm. when they're little and she had, um, some eye issues, a learning difficulty. So she was better at math than she was her phonics, Right. In English. And plus we owned a math tutoring center. Yeah. So 

[00:33:05] Randi: her 

lives 

[00:33:05] Jess: were centered around math.

Math. Yeah. And so we, I would praise her math cuz I wanted her to feel successful. Mm-hmm. because she felt like she wasn't being successful in her, you know, ELA or English. Right. And so when it started to get harder, And she started to not like math, then she kind of felt like she wasn't successful. Mm.

Cause I put so much emphasis on math, math, math. Yeah. Right. And that must be it. And there's something about math where like, if you get it, we think, Oh, they must be smart. And if you don't get it, we're like, Oh, they're dumb. Mm-hmm. It is something our society does. Right. Right. And so I really had to kind of shift the focus with her and not focus so much on one thing.

And really, again, go back to the effort. Mm-hmm. , is she putting an effort? It's okay. Right, right. And, and be happy about it because when we Are 

[00:33:54] Randi: you trying, are you learning? You know, like that's, are you growing? You know, 

[00:33:58] Jess: And if we say you're the smartest kid in the whole world, Right. Mm-hmm. , because we tell our kids that you can be anything you want.

Right. And they're like, I wanna be an astronaut. And they can't. Right. It sets them up, setting 

[00:34:10] Randi: them up for failure. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like kinda, it's a gray area. It's really hard to kinda weigh like the good and stuff with the bad and those things. You don't wanna downplay something too much, but you do wanna like play to like strengths 

[00:34:22] Jess: and.

If you can help them understand where their strengths and mm-hmm. , you know, I don't like the word weaknesses. I try to say challenge areas. Yeah. But if you can help them define those. Right, right. Again, I will tell you I suck at math, but I can run a math center No problem. Yeah. Because of the psychology behind it.

Right. And it was so interesting to see how I. Couldn't do the calculus they were doing and I didn't want to do it. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. No thanks, . No, but I could make them, I could understand how they were feeling when they weren't getting 

[00:34:53] Randi: it. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. You could empathize with that, right? 

[00:34:55] Jess: Yeah. And so it was this, it's interesting when you start to break it down and, and realize what you're good at and, and what your areas of 

[00:35:02] Randi: challenge are.

Yeah. And that it's okay to be good in one area and not at all. Too. Yeah. I think sometimes we feel like, you know, we need to be good at it all. And it's like, no. Like the most successful people will tell you that they had a team behind them. Yes. That was better than them at all the things they weren't good at.

Yes. And it's like, yes. Again, going back to that, finding a support system or partnering with somebody that's better, it's like they usually say like opposites attract, and that's kind of like that basis. You know, it's like that balance and then we are both pulling each other, you know, out of our comfort zones or pushing each other into comfort zones and learning more and 

[00:35:42] Jess: growing, and that's making a team.

Mm-hmm. . Right. And if, and if you're feeling like you have imposter syndrome, if you're feeling like you resonate with any of those five that we read off mm-hmm. . Find your team that supports you. Right. Right. And that might be your therapist, right? That might be a mentor. Mm-hmm. , that could be your partner.

Or looking for a partner who can help balance 

[00:36:04] Randi: that. Yeah. Or reaching out to somebody that is better at it than you. And it's like, not from like a place of jealousy, but like, I just wanna like absorb what you do or like some tips for me or something like that. I think when you approach stuff from that perspective, instead of like, you know, like, I suck, I don't measure up that negative self talk, you know, or jealousy.

Ew. You know them and like putting them down, that's not gonna go 

[00:36:31] Jess: anywhere. No. And all that's going to do is take that imposter syndrome and just keep perpetuating it over and over and over. Right. And. In order to, to get out of that is to acknowledge how you're feeling, why you're feeling it, you know, explore, where does this come from?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. , did you not get a trophy or did you get a trophy for participating when you were a kid? Right? Mm-hmm. and, and really working towards how do I overcome this, right? Because it's, you know, it's, it's, you are enough. You are enough, you are worthy, All of that. Mm-hmm. , you are enough and you know what you're doing.

Yep. So take a 

[00:37:10] Randi: deep breath. Yeah. Stop talking to yourself like that. Oh, 

[00:37:15] Jess: be nice to yourself. Just, 

[00:37:16] Randi: just for today at least. If it's like too hard to do all the time. I mean, we're notoriously like we would never talk to like our friends or our children or our children, the way that we talk to ourselves in our heads and.

That's sad, but it's like, so we need to kind of flip the script and be like, Hey self, you know, I know I've been a hole to you lately, but listen up like you do have, you know, stop the thought pattern. Like I do have this background, I do have this experience, I do have this education. I do have, you know, this capability, like I am enough.

If you are really feeling lacking, then what can you do to improve? With yourself. You know, because if you want to, you can always, there's always a chance to learn something new if you're really struggling with that. And it could be simple as going to the library and getting a free book, you know, on something.

Or asking somebody for help, like, or 

[00:38:11] Jess: listening to a podcast. Hello, we're here, . Yeah. So anyway, kick it to the curb. Yeah. Don't own any of your imposter syndrome and learn to be confident in yourself. Yep. 

[00:38:21] Randi: All right. You are worthy. We'll talk to you next week. All right. Bye. Thanks for listening and normalizing mental health with us.

[00:38:29] Jess: Don't free to check out our free resources and favorites on our website, unapologetically, randy and jess.com 

[00:38:36] Randi: like and share this episode and tune in next week.